Posts by Rattigan350

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Rattigan350

9 pages of a thread containing wrong answers. Sheol/hades/hell is not symbolic and it is not literal. It is the state of being dead. Dead is dead. Not living on anywhere, until the resurrection. First the dead in Christ from Pentecost to 1914 were raised, then the rest of the 144,000 were raised when they died from 1918 to now. Then in the kingdom hell will be emptied of its dead by the people being resurrected to earth.

The problem is that so many people read the Bible shallowly such as "I would prefer to be at home with the Lord." They take Paul's words at face value. What Paul said applied only to him and those of his time. But people like to fantasize and want all of the gusto and glory that they see as the Lord can provide them.

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Rattigan350

Why do people follow quotes and saying rather than learn the mechanics of how things work?

How does hellfire work?

When did it start?

How was it told to Adam & Eve?

What was the criteria to go there or not?

Weren't they told from dust you are and dust you will return?

No mention of spirit living on.
What is there to burn?

Since the dead are unconscious, Jesus likened it to sleeping, how can they feel anything or know anything?

If it is eternal punishment in hell, why does Revelation 20:13 say that hell will be emptied and then hell will be thrown into the lake of fire

No one asks these questions because they would rather just follow.
Thinking is a lost art.

43

How do JWs know that less than 150,000 Christians existed before the 20th Century?

by Vanderhoven7 in

according to watchtower, only anointed christians existed between the first and 20th centuries.

the great crowd of other sheep only began forming after the 20th century started.. how do they support this conclusion?

.

Rattigan350

You have to remember that to be Born Again into the new covenant, one must be born of water and spirit.

Anointed by God with holy spirit. Why would he anoint people entrenched in false worship?

And baptized in water. Catholic baptisms were not recognized by God.

So his choices were slim to none.

43

How do JWs know that less than 150,000 Christians existed before the 20th Century?

by Vanderhoven7 in

according to watchtower, only anointed christians existed between the first and 20th centuries.

the great crowd of other sheep only began forming after the 20th century started.. how do they support this conclusion?

.

Rattigan350

"only anointed Christians existed between the first and 20th centuries"

Not so.

There were Christians, but God did the choosing as to whom he would anoint.

But then the weeds were mixed in with the wheat so any that God didn't have a good batch to choose from.

During the middle ages, Jehovah chose whom he needed to choose so that there were wheat during all of those centuries. There didn't have to be many, just one or two.

There are those that believe the church is orthodox and believe all of those doctrines because they are taught in orthodoxy. But if orthodoxy is the touchstone to them, why was there a need for a reformation?

39

Faithful Slave Appointment: What are the assumptions of Watchtower Matthew 24:45-47 Eschatology?

by Vanderhoven7 in

text: matthew 24:45-47.

45 “who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?

46 it will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns.

Rattigan350

SeaBreaze said "walked out of a tomb after having claimed that he would raise himself"

No. Jesus did not say that he would raise himself. In Acts 2:32 "God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses"

Christian Standard Bible "God has raised this Jesus; we are all witnesses of this."

39

Faithful Slave Appointment: What are the assumptions of Watchtower Matthew 24:45-47 Eschatology?

by Vanderhoven7 in

text: matthew 24:45-47.

45 “who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?

46 it will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns.

Rattigan350

"The Early Church leaders, many of which were personally trained by the apostles"

You base your beliefs on Early Church leaders???

I stated earlier. Stop listening to what people said and examine the mechanics of how things work or rather don't work in the case of life after death and eternal torment.

None of these people, not even Jesus himself, can make eternal torment work.

39

Faithful Slave Appointment: What are the assumptions of Watchtower Matthew 24:45-47 Eschatology?

by Vanderhoven7 in

text: matthew 24:45-47.

45 “who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?

46 it will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns.

Rattigan350

They use Matt 24:45-47 simply because it gives them some authority over the people and teachings..

It does not require arguing over 1914 or 1919.

They used 1919 because that is when the conventions began to where they started the preaching to illustrate that they were not bound by Babylon.

The only reason that the FDS is of relevance to you all and them is because Jesus made a reference to it. People have this belief that if Jesus says so, then we have to listen.

From 1879 to 1974 the governing body was they board of directors. Then it was expanded and made separate, then made more separate in 2000. How the FDS was defined did not change where the teachings came from or authority. It just was done to appease people.

39

Faithful Slave Appointment: What are the assumptions of Watchtower Matthew 24:45-47 Eschatology?

by Vanderhoven7 in

text: matthew 24:45-47.

45 “who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?

46 it will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns.

Rattigan350

Vanderhoven said "Hades fire was the teaching of the Pharisees"

We don't know what the pharisees taught.

We know that the whole concept of hell/hades fire or any kind of torment after death is ridiculous.

What is there to burn? The dead are dead. Nothing lives on.

39

Faithful Slave Appointment: What are the assumptions of Watchtower Matthew 24:45-47 Eschatology?

by Vanderhoven7 in

text: matthew 24:45-47.

45 “who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?

46 it will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns.

Rattigan350

Sea Breaze "Jesus talks about hell more than he talks about heaven, and describes it more vividly. There’s no denying that Jesus knew, believed, and warned against the absolute reality of hell."

People need to stop going by what people said.

The problem here is that people don't ask the right questions. They don't ask questions at all. Where is the skepticism.

Why didn't it come into play at Adam? They caused humanity to suffer. But all they got was sent to the dust.

No mention of torment from Adam to Jesus.

It sounds like hellfire started when Jesus spoke of it.

The problem is that Jesus changed nothing. He termed dead people as sleeping.

Rich man and Lazarus had the rich man in torments becuase he received good things in his lifetime.

I thought torments was for not believing in Jesus. But that was not stated.

If people went to torments, Amos 3:7 would apply "For the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing

Unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets."

It would needed to be explained and warned clearly.

Jesus didn't talk about hell more than heaven. Then the problem of the KJV uses gehenna for hell when it is only hades.

However, Jesus said he is the resurrection and the life. He gave expressions that may look like torments but they are just expressions. Jesus only fulfilled the atonement. He did not create punishments.

39

Faithful Slave Appointment: What are the assumptions of Watchtower Matthew 24:45-47 Eschatology?

by Vanderhoven7 in

text: matthew 24:45-47.

45 “who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?

46 it will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns.

Rattigan350

I fail to see why this is such a big deal to people.

Jesus said a lot of things and many made no sense and people ended up misinterpreting them.

I look at the big picture over phrases said.

I'm thankful for Charles Russell for reviving true Christianity and setting the path for the faith to grow back.

We are not bogged down by false beliefs like trinity, hellfire, the need to go to heaven, once saved always saved, rapture, expecting Jesus to return to earth, etc.

We have the correct understanding of religion because of the faithful slave was doing what Jesus wanted done.