today i woke up and my left sock was missing.
i blame them.
filthy sock bastards.
Thanks Yadirf,
I'm getting old and that picture looks so much better when it's larger. Of course I look better when I'm larger too but let's not go there. I don't think there are any LARGER pics of me out there.
Venice,
All I can say is. Woo Hoo!!!!
TimB
(i brought this over from rex's thread).
does god exist-i always think of khalil gibran's couplet from the prophet; "do not say god is in my heart, but i am in the heart of god.
" i beleive that people use god to keep themselves in check, and they make the bible their moral register.
I tend to agree with you Ash, but I don't think it'll be around forever. Eventually science will explain enough and educate the general public enough that the "believers" will be in the minority. At that point you will see a surge in the collective knowledge of our civilization. I say, the sooner we get there the better.
TimB
i'm going to my first "worldly" social gathering (party) next week.. so what do i do?.
i'm not used to this so you'll have to give me some tips.. do worldly people bite?
i've tried to learn some new words and phrases so that i can fit in .. hopefully the'll never suspect.. i'll try some out.see what you think.. ( names have been changed to protect the inocent).
Fred,
You forgot:
Have sex until you find a new meaning for the word God.
TimB
yes imagine if after all the struggle and effort to break fee of jehovahs witnesses it turnred out that they were right all along.. the governing body were getting messages from god and were being used by him , proof came out that evolution was false.they found noahs ark and ancient manuscrips were found that proved the bible true.. also lasurus was still alive and well living in siberia.. the next thing we know religon has been banned.. there are signs in the sky and strange phenomenon.. we look up and see the moon turned to blood and the sign of the son of man appears in the heavens.. next to him is a flying pig.. we realise pigs don't fly .. we wake up sweating.. it was all a dream.. releaved its all over we get up for a new day.. we open the curtains, allwe can see is fire and brimstone.. we hear screams of tourture.. satan laughs.
They cannot possibly be right....If they were right that would mean I was wrong and we all know that isn't possible.
But if they were right I would spit in Jehovah's face and tell him I will not serve anyone who would order the murder of innocent women and children. Strong words, I know, but I have to draw the line somewhere.
TimB
i am seriously considering finding out what is involved in putting together a lawsuit against the wts.
one that all xjw's in the us can join in.. has the wts not violated our civil rights, taken away our right to choose, without bias, how to live our lives?
were not our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness violated?
Ok Yadirf,
I can see that you just want to get into some kind of name calling. I will not sink to your level. I can see how true christians react to differing views.
I not only “think” that JWs would NOT “tell” other people that they shouldn’t give their allegiance to the Flag etc., but I KNOW they wouldn’t. We don’t “TELL” people what they do in this regard. It’s a personal decision that each person makes, based upon what they’ve learned from the Bible on the subject. However, if the time should come when a person such as YOU decide that they no longer want to be at unity with the rest of the organization on this issue, then “bye-bye” … you’re on you own and “outta here”. And rightly so!What you just said Yadirf, is that either you refuse to salute the flag or you can't be a JW. I think that is what I said also.
Well lookie here who’s got it ALL figured out! No, you’re wrong again, “they” are taught that man’s ENTIRE worldly system was corrupted from the beginningOk, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the "ENTIRE worldly system" include the US or UK or any other country?
My arguement is not with the bible itself. My arguement is with an organization that chooses to interpret a manmade book. Their interpretations say that all manmade governments are bad and will be destroyed. They teach that you should not defend the very country that gives you the right to believe what you want. My only problem with the JW religion is that they will not allow anyone to leave without serious repercussions in their family life.
TimB
i am seriously considering finding out what is involved in putting together a lawsuit against the wts.
one that all xjw's in the us can join in.. has the wts not violated our civil rights, taken away our right to choose, without bias, how to live our lives?
were not our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness violated?
Yardif,
Subvert, according to Websters definition 2)to pervert or corrupt by undermining of morals, allegiance or faith.
I was refering to the allegiance part. Do you think that JWs would tell anyone that they shouldn't give their allegiance to the 'Flag of the United States of America and the Rebublic for which it stands'? The JW's subvert the Gov. 1 person at a time when they teach them that they do not owe their allegience to this great nation. They are taught that this government is corrupt and on the verge of collapse because man cannot rule themselves. I have even heard at an assembly that this democratic government is the most disgusting kind because every citizen who votes is actually acting as a ruler.
OK. That is what I meant by subversive. If you want to go on about it all day then maybe we can start another thread.
The other thing I wanted to adress was whether or not the Society cares about public opinion and courts of the land.
What about the whole donation arrangement? Why did this become and issue right after the supreme court ruled that some televanglist had pay sales taxes on the books he sold? We were never told that in other countries it's business as usual(they don't use the donation arrangement) because they don't have to worry about the sales tax problem.
Mr Moe,
I agree that I learned a lot from being a witness but I would disagree that it is worth fighting for. I have some family that I deeply care about who are suffering needlessly. I did not make the choice to be a witness. I didn't recognize how wrong they were for 36 yrs. How could I expect my little sister to somehow be responsible for the way she is taught? I want to help others get out or at least have that choice. It has been shown that the only thing that corporations understand is the almighty dollar. Slap a civil lawsuit on a big corporation and look how long it takes them to make the needed changes.
TimB
i am seriously considering finding out what is involved in putting together a lawsuit against the wts.
one that all xjw's in the us can join in.. has the wts not violated our civil rights, taken away our right to choose, without bias, how to live our lives?
were not our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness violated?
Back to the original subject...Did anyone see the piece this morning on Good Morning America about a woman who confessed an affair to her pastor who subsequently told her husband causing a 14 yr marriage to end in divorce. The woman was awarded $65,000. Does this sound like anything that has happened before with the JW's? This is great! Maybe we can get the transcript and the info surrounding this case.
TimB
i am seriously considering finding out what is involved in putting together a lawsuit against the wts.
one that all xjw's in the us can join in.. has the wts not violated our civil rights, taken away our right to choose, without bias, how to live our lives?
were not our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness violated?
Great posts Joel Bear & Bridgette,
The Society has gone out of their way to try to separate the activities of the religion and the corporation but if some could set the wheels in motion with a civil suit we could actually create change.
Just look at the power of an even moderatly organized group who believes in helping others. The recent UN scandal and subsequent change by the WTS is a good example.
Also, the ACLU has helped the Society in the past when it came to constitutional freedoms and they could possibly be in the best position to fight for the personal freedoms of the family members who didn't have a choice.
TimB
i am seriously considering finding out what is involved in putting together a lawsuit against the wts.
one that all xjw's in the us can join in.. has the wts not violated our civil rights, taken away our right to choose, without bias, how to live our lives?
were not our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness violated?
I think there are some that are scared to start a lawsuit because of the fear of failure. Let me just say that if a burglar can sue a homeowner for an injury recieved by slipping and falling in the victims house then I think a lawsuit could be started against the WTS on a number of grounds.
You see, they may never be guilty of violating any specific laws but let me tell you, lawsuits do have an affect on them. Although the Jimmy Swaggart book selling/tax violation lawsuit did not address them specifically we did see some changes made because of it.
If we give up before we get started then we are guaranteed to lose. Is it worth fighting for? Do you think that anyone will get hurt or die as a result of the Society's rules any time soon? I do. As far as I am concerned, if it increases the personal freedoms of others or saves just one life, then it is worth fighting for.
If someone is fighting the Society right now or is contemplating it, I say we should start a Legal fund so that people could help out with the expenses and increase the chances of winning.
Just some more of my thoughts.
TimB
i am seriously considering finding out what is involved in putting together a lawsuit against the wts.
one that all xjw's in the us can join in.. has the wts not violated our civil rights, taken away our right to choose, without bias, how to live our lives?
were not our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness violated?
Actually I feel that the political and religious climate is so much different than it has been in the past. There are a lot of people who are wanting some government protection from the deceptive practices of cults.
There are a few angles where I feel the WS could be vulnerable. (I have no legal experience or expertise. This is merely my opinions.)
One Example) Children like myself did not really have a choice about what religion they wanted to be. I remember when I was growing up in the late 70's and early 80's it didn't matter if you got babtised or not. If you were caught in wrongdoing or went to a different religion, you lost your family. Now doesn't that sound like a human rights violation? It's true that the parents and other family members make a personal decision to shun, but then they don't REALLY have a choice. This invasion and division of the family ties is something that makes normal people cringe and get angry. Even if this is a fight that couldn't be won, the publicity could possibly help many others see the light before it's too late.
Another possible angle) I know this has been tested quite a while back but it did have limited sucess. The society has throughout the years used subversive language in regards to the political powers. They have toned it down lately but it still exists. In this time of patriotic fervor it could be a hot topic for the courts.
What do you think?
TimB
