You met me at a very strange time in my life Final line in FIGHT CLUB.
Why? Reminds me of the transition from the JW's. I have actually said those words.
TimB
tyydyy
JoinedPosts by tyydyy
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51
Favorite movie line?
by gilwarrior inwhat is your favorite movie line?
please mention the movie line and why it is the best.. my favorite movie line:.
"ever since i was a kid...i always wanted to be a gangster.".
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The Debate: Do JW's Need Respect?
by Mindchild inthis thread will hopefully serve as the platform for a friendly debate about the issue of how much respect the watchtower society deserves from ex-jehovah's witnesses.
do we blast the hell out of the borg and don't let a kind word in edgewise?
do we acknowledge that they have done some things right and (shudder) even good?
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tyydyy
Tyydyy's statement to the press on the courthouse steps:
I would just like to make it known that the arguements I present here do not necesarily reflect my personal views. I merely present the evidence and arguements to give everyone acting as the jury to come to an informed decision.
No more questions please. Please. I must go.
TimB
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85
The Debate: Do JW's Need Respect?
by Mindchild inthis thread will hopefully serve as the platform for a friendly debate about the issue of how much respect the watchtower society deserves from ex-jehovah's witnesses.
do we blast the hell out of the borg and don't let a kind word in edgewise?
do we acknowledge that they have done some things right and (shudder) even good?
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tyydyy
I cannot produce any evidence at this time (my personal WTS library is dwindling) showing that the WTS encouraged anyone to seek professional help. I do remember an article several yrs ago noting that medication is a viable means for treating depression along with encouragement from friends, family and congregation elders and prayer.
I would hope the court would allow someone else to research the articles on this subject. (Could someone who has access to the WTS CD look this up please)TimB
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85
The Debate: Do JW's Need Respect?
by Mindchild inthis thread will hopefully serve as the platform for a friendly debate about the issue of how much respect the watchtower society deserves from ex-jehovah's witnesses.
do we blast the hell out of the borg and don't let a kind word in edgewise?
do we acknowledge that they have done some things right and (shudder) even good?
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tyydyy
On the subject of mental illness within the WTS. The WTS has done much to educate the public and the rank and file members of the symptoms and treatments of mental illness. This might cause a increase in recognition and subsequent treatment of the illnesses resulting in a larger percentage of WTS members recieving treatment in the form of office visits and medication.
TimB
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85
The Debate: Do JW's Need Respect?
by Mindchild inthis thread will hopefully serve as the platform for a friendly debate about the issue of how much respect the watchtower society deserves from ex-jehovah's witnesses.
do we blast the hell out of the borg and don't let a kind word in edgewise?
do we acknowledge that they have done some things right and (shudder) even good?
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tyydyy
The prosecution has shown some evidence of a disproportionate percentage of WTS members with psychological problems. The defense will not dispute that assertion. But does the presence of mental illness prove that the WTS was the cause of this illness or does it show that the WTS attracts people who (as we pointed out earlier) have these problems already?
The present study of 50 Jehovah's Witnesses admitted to the Mental Health Service facilities of Western Australia suggests that members of this section of the community are more likely to be admitted to a psychiatric hospital than the general population
I propose that the sampling of this study was not large enough to give an accurate result. (Please see the additional comments from Larc)
The doctrines of the WTS can cause stress and subsequently mental illness. No doubt about it. The lifestyle that they promote is vastly different from the general society that we live in. Does this make them evil. Not in itself. Our everyday careers cause much stress and mental illness. Our relationships can cause mental illness. (just ask anyone who is married. They'll tell you that their mate is crazy without admitting that they made them that way.)
TimB
TimB
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85
The Debate: Do JW's Need Respect?
by Mindchild inthis thread will hopefully serve as the platform for a friendly debate about the issue of how much respect the watchtower society deserves from ex-jehovah's witnesses.
do we blast the hell out of the borg and don't let a kind word in edgewise?
do we acknowledge that they have done some things right and (shudder) even good?
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tyydyy
Tyydyy's opening statement:
It is the stand of the defense that although the Witnesses (hereafter referred to as WTS) have some doctrines that we see as damaging to the rank and file and their families, we cannot arbitrarily dismiss the positive affects this religion has had on our society and the individual lives of some who chose to exercise their constitutional rights and follow this lifestyle. It is easy to point out many examples of wrongdoing by members when you have 6 million but should the doctrines and practices of the WTS cause us to withhold all respect for them? It is our contention that there is still sufficient evidence to suggest that they do deserve respect at least equal to the other religions that our constitution protects. Our personal beliefs tend to reduce our tollerance of others beliefs and values.
While I cannot defend the accuracy of the WTS doctrines. I will attempt to defend their right to exist and continue to teach their doctrines while coexisting with respect in our society. (whew....this is going to be tough)
I will attempt to show that the WTS gives the same respect that any religion gives to others. In fact they are much more tollerant of other lifestyles while not approving of them.
I will attempt to show that the WTS has some postive influences on our society that deserve our acknowledgement and earns them some respect.
TimB
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85
The Debate: Do JW's Need Respect?
by Mindchild inthis thread will hopefully serve as the platform for a friendly debate about the issue of how much respect the watchtower society deserves from ex-jehovah's witnesses.
do we blast the hell out of the borg and don't let a kind word in edgewise?
do we acknowledge that they have done some things right and (shudder) even good?
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tyydyy
Sorry Your Honor,
I didn't mean to distract from the proceeding which you are conducting so well.TimB
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85
The Debate: Do JW's Need Respect?
by Mindchild inthis thread will hopefully serve as the platform for a friendly debate about the issue of how much respect the watchtower society deserves from ex-jehovah's witnesses.
do we blast the hell out of the borg and don't let a kind word in edgewise?
do we acknowledge that they have done some things right and (shudder) even good?
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tyydyy
On the other hand, individuals who actively participate in the organization are by necessity linked with the overall consequences of their participation.
I must ask this question. Does their actual knowledge, or lack of knowledge, of the organizations bad qualities affect their culpability?
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85
The Debate: Do JW's Need Respect?
by Mindchild inthis thread will hopefully serve as the platform for a friendly debate about the issue of how much respect the watchtower society deserves from ex-jehovah's witnesses.
do we blast the hell out of the borg and don't let a kind word in edgewise?
do we acknowledge that they have done some things right and (shudder) even good?
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tyydyy
Your Honor,
I need a sidebar....(whispering) "sorry about the robe thing. I was just trying to find out if it's true that judges don't wear anything under their robes."
TimB
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85
The Debate: Do JW's Need Respect?
by Mindchild inthis thread will hopefully serve as the platform for a friendly debate about the issue of how much respect the watchtower society deserves from ex-jehovah's witnesses.
do we blast the hell out of the borg and don't let a kind word in edgewise?
do we acknowledge that they have done some things right and (shudder) even good?
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tyydyy
Does the Religion itself deserve respect?
I do accept the definition of respect submitted. Only I would like to add "the acknowledgement of the positive effects the person or group has had on others".We need to look at the good that the religion does as well as the bad. In the process, we need to keep in mind that every organization has bad in it. At what point does the bad in an organization justify withholding respect?
Before we begin looking at the Witnesses, let's keep in mind that there are many organizations that do many good things for people but are still involved in scandals concerning how people are treated, how the money is handled and the ethics/motives of the leaders. Some that come to mind are, The Salvation Army, The United Way, Unicef, The Red Cross...etc. Do we withhold our respect from these organizations and ignore the good that they do because there is some corruption? That of course is a personal decision but most people respect these organizations for the good that they are attempting to do in spite of the controversy.
Now for the Witnesses. What good have they done as a Religion.
The witnesses provide hope for people who have given up on other religions and themselves. They give them hope for a new way of life, new respect, and new friends. Is this bad. Yes and No. No, because this hope enables many to raise themselves from the criminal lifestyle they felt mired in. It gives those suffering from depression the power to leave their own home to be with like minded people.
The witnesses have exposed the hypocracy of many other religions and governments in the process of trying to make themselves look good.
They do help others in times of disasters. Do they exagerate their efforts when reporting? Yes, but some good is done in the meantime.
They brought us all more personal freedom in the US because of their fights in the courts in the early and mid 1900's.
They arguably teach good family values. At least when the children are preteen. It is arguable because each individual has a different idea about what they value in a family.I'll take a break here and let the prosecution rebutt. (Plus I need a cigarette break)
TimB