hey peeps, how are you?.
the name is mark, i've been hanging around here from time to time.
i read about the elders meeting with officer danni.s.
Thanks Mark,
That does clarify a few things for me. I wish I were there. That would have been soooooooooo cool. I really would have wanted to hear the questions and answers afterward. The looks on the faces of everyone ......Man where are the cameras when you really need them...
We are all eagerly awaiting more details....You must have some idea how curious and skeptical we are by now.
Keep us posted and good luck on your exit.....
TimB
thought you'd be interested to know that i have just been forwarded a note from the watch tower, belatedly in response to the tiny little story i got in on 17 november about that chicago jw couple accused of beating their daughter to death.
it is interesting that they shld respond - on headed notepaper, apparently from pennsylvania - nearly a month later about something that really got very little space and i can't help feeling it's not unconnected with the other stuff i was writing at that time.
this is it, in full:.
Very good point PureHeart,
I'm going to remember that one.
Thanks
TimB
hey peeps, how are you?.
the name is mark, i've been hanging around here from time to time.
i read about the elders meeting with officer danni.s.
MyMy,
I think I made it clear in my first post to you that I am serious about wanting to clarify these things for myself and others.
Now, you seemed to have missed a couple of the questions.
You did clarify the 70s issue a little and I'll leave that alone. Thanks.
You still didn't answer the question about where you got the phone number. I have a hard time believing that you were in the main hall with over 200 others and heard the words of the conversation clearly much less the phone number over a speakerphone. Did you have your ear to the door? Just trying to clarify because it sounds a little "out there"
but the number is familar to all Jws. They may have wanted her to call that number just to see where her mind was at and what other actions she was planning on taking but I doubt very much they were going to say anything against Bill. They were pulling her chain.
The phone number about Bill Bowen is (718)560-5000. Now there's a catch to getting the information . You have to prove where you are calling from and what congregation you are with. You have to give out your name and address. They will talk about Bill but, only answer certian questions they are covering their own asses.
I can and will double check that's not a problem. No reason to cry over it. I am sure that's the number they gave out, like I said I will double check it. Keep in mind Danni wouldn't know anything about the GB numbers.Ok look, you said gave detailed instructions on how to get info from this number but yet you were surprised that this was the number for the public information office. You also pointed out that all JWs would be familiar with that number. Which is it? Help me, man....
I am very curious about the questions and answer session. What kind of questions were asked? Did the two families leave before the questions were asked? How did you know these guys were going to leave anyway. Did you speak to them about your feelings? Did you mention this website to them since you said that you've been coming here for months?
Again. Don't get he wrong impression. I am not attacking you. I am merely asking some questions because these things are causing me to have some doubts. Help me out man. I am not your enemy.
I am one of you "Peeps"
TimB
i was at the fungus fair last week end and learned this no so well know remedy that can save lives here it is:.
milk thistle seeds.. a couple from watsonville ca almost died from eating death caps, but those who study mushrooms at the fair call the hospital with the remedy.. the mercury news reported that the couple were given this combination:.
penicilin, n-acelyle cysteine(protien you can get at heathfood store) and milk thistle (herb).
LOL....I'm sorry but this cracks me up....
I got a remedy for you....DON'T EAT ANYTHING WITH "DEATH" IN THE TITLE!!!!!!!!!!!!
"But, Doc, I didn't see a warning label" "You idiot, they aren't called DEATH CAP Mushrooms for nothing"
I'm sorry Wilt, I couldn't resist....:)
ROFLMAO
TimB
this thread will hopefully serve as the platform for a friendly debate about the issue of how much respect the watchtower society deserves from ex-jehovah's witnesses.
do we blast the hell out of the borg and don't let a kind word in edgewise?
do we acknowledge that they have done some things right and (shudder) even good?
Closing Arguements for the Defense
Let me just say straight out that I love this forum for giving us the opportunity to discuss both sides of this or any issue.
I know that the WTS has made some mistakes in the past. They are still making mistakes. They ARE correcting these mistakes without seeming wishy washy and disturbing the faith of the 6 million active members that need the hope that this religion gives them. This takes time. Meanwhile there are many, many organizations out there who do make mistakes but still retain the respect of the general public. Of course everyone who quits a job or especially if they get fired, will say that they are so glad to be gone and that was the worst company they ever worked for. Since so many that leave the JW's have lost family and friends because they no longer have common interests, we can expect the same "sour grapes" attitude and lack of respect. If we want to find out if we are being objective in our attitude toward the WTS then we should look at other religions and organizations that may have corruption in them and ask, "How do I feel about these organizations?".
I would like to thank the Court and the citizens of the internet community for the civility shown during these precedings.
The Defense Rests
I would like to open the discussion to the JURY at this point for disscussion and a verdict. I trust that the JURY will be fair and objective. Everyone who has read this thread will be qualified to be a JUROR and we welcome your comments and even critique.
Again I would like to point out that THE VIEW EXPRESSED BY THE DEFENSE DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THE PERSONAL VIEWS OF THE DEFENSE COUNCIL. :)
TimB
hey peeps, how are you?.
the name is mark, i've been hanging around here from time to time.
i read about the elders meeting with officer danni.s.
Mymy,
I have a couple of questions for you. Not necessarily to attack but to clarify for everyone here who may have some suspicions. If you are outing yourself then there should be no hesitation in your answers.
You said
I believe the last big exciting event that took place here was back in the 1970s when we all got a visit from the Brooklyn office telling us what a great job we are doing trying to save others just before the new system arrived in the fall.Then you said
have been a Jehovah's Witness for 22yrs. I married a woman a witness woman and the rest is history.Now basic math......2002 - 22 yrs = 1980 How is it "we all got a visit" back in the '70s?
Also you said:
they are not going after your job.It's all an act to keep you scared and,from going public with what you know (meaning the tape). This came straight from the mouth of the "speakerphone".If you were in the main hall then how did you know what was said from the speakerphone? Who was on the speakerphone? (A pretty important piece of info that you left out) If you were in the back room, why didn't you mention that fact?
You Said:
I want to put in add some information Danni left out. Namely this: The phone number about Bill Bowen is (718)560-5000. Now there's a catch to getting the information . You have to prove where you are calling from and what congregation you are with. You have to give out your name and address. They will talk about Bill but, only answer certian questions they are covering their own asses. That's what they didn't tell you Danni. They are pulling your chain they knew you wouldn't call that number.Where did you get that phone #? Were you in the room at the time? Did you have a pen handy to write down? How do you know they will ask all those questions when you call that number? Did you call the number? If you weren't in the room and you didn't overhear the number and write it down, how did you get the phone number? I have a hard time imagining you asking one of the elders in the room, who have just been attacked by apostates, "Hey do you mind if I have the phone number to ask about this apostate website?" Why didn't you reveal your sources and add credibility for those you are asking to "join" with you? If you are willing to take the lead in this mass exit from the JW's then you should have no problem explaining these questions.
Keep in mind, I am not attacking you at all. I am merely asking questions before I "join". Do you understand that when someone asks an EX-JW to JOIN something that there will be some questions before they just jump on the band wagon?
it would have taken more much more time to tell it all.
he told us the meeting would began as soon as the other brothers arrived.
danni: i will give you two.
Danni,
I haven't commented on this thread yet but I wanted to tell you that I really appreciate what you and your partner did. I also appreciate what others did to help you prepare for this meeting. You have a dangerous, stressful and sometimes thankless job. It definitely doesn't pay enough if you ask me. It doesn't feel natural for me to give props to a cop because 99% of the interaction I have with them has been an unpleasant experience. (Usually getting a traffic fine for something I consider petty.) I do know that without the police force intimidating people they could not be as effective. I'm sure that is part of the training you recieve. I wouldn't want to be on the recieving end of it but I think that I would understand the motives and accept it anyway.
I do not believe that you've endangered your career but I could be wrong. I know that when you walked into that Kingdom hall, you spoke for many of us here. You asked the things we would love to ask but can't. Some of can't do that for fear of losing our families and some of us can't because they wouldn't take the time to meet with us or take us seriously. I really did take someone in your position to get under their skin. I sitting here wishing you lived in the same town that I do. :)
If it doesn't work out with the JW boyfriend let me know. I'll bet we could set you up with an Ex JW. :) You are a hero to us. Tell Darryll we love him.
I doubt that if you believed the meeting would turn out that way, you would have gone through with it, at least the same way. I'll bet you feel kinda frustrated with the fact that you really can't use logic and reason with those people. Most of the Elders that you spoke with probably didn't know of any specific wrongdoing but we don't know that. At some point more information may come out that will prove this meeting did in fact go well. And keep in mind that it sometimes takes only one case to change an entire policy for a religion. For example, the Catholic church has just changed their rules because of a current civil lawsuit. They are now told to report any allegations of illegal activity, including child molestors, to the police. After all these yrs that's all it took.
All I can add is: Thank you Thank you Thank you.
TimB
the producers saw a baltimore sun article me and my friends were in nd they want us to film a promo for the sequel to 'that 70's show' which is called 'that 80's show' .
we are filming the promo next wedesday, ill letcha guys know the details as i get em!.
-dan
Hey Man!!!
Where have you been. I hope things have picked up for you. We have all missed you here. Don't be such a stranger.
TimB
this thread will hopefully serve as the platform for a friendly debate about the issue of how much respect the watchtower society deserves from ex-jehovah's witnesses.
do we blast the hell out of the borg and don't let a kind word in edgewise?
do we acknowledge that they have done some things right and (shudder) even good?
Thanks Clash. Noted. Filed. Locked Away.
TimB
this thread will hopefully serve as the platform for a friendly debate about the issue of how much respect the watchtower society deserves from ex-jehovah's witnesses.
do we blast the hell out of the borg and don't let a kind word in edgewise?
do we acknowledge that they have done some things right and (shudder) even good?
The defense would like to point out that the comparison to the Union Carbide was introduced by the prosecution and the logical defense was entirely appropriate.
The Battle for Freedom
The WTS has seen the need to change on some issues such as immunizations, acceptance of blood products, shunning, voting...etc.
These changes have been slower than many would like but they don't necesarily follow the accepted moral code of the society around them. This makes them unique but they haven't broken any laws in the process. This organization feels strongly about it's beliefs and they are willing to suffer for what they believe. This fundamental right to worship is one of the core issues on which this United States was founded on. Freedom comes at a cost. Yes from time to time some do die rather than give up that freedom. Some are imprisoned for exercising that basic human right. Each individual has that choice and they are not coerced by some evil leader. Yes they feel pressure, but that pressure is from their own concience. As adjustments are made to conform to a better understanding of Jehovah's Witnesses core doctrines these costs will be reduced.
As we look across the world we find the supression of this freedom disgusting. The Afganistan Gov. is an excellent example. Now that countries that believe in freedom have come to the aid of the Afganistan people, they are free to worship as they see fit. They each have a choice. God Bless the USA. How do we keep the same thing from happening in our great country? We respect the rights of others to worship in the way they see fit. Who are we to judge for someone else what is the right form of worship? We have every right to decide for ourselves and that is just the way we want to keep it.
The WTS has spent many years defending this basic human right not just in the US but around the world. They have done much within the system of other governments to guarantee these rights for themselves but also for other people wishing to worship in their own way. God Bless The WTS!
TimB
