InChristAlone
I was about to make a similar remark, until I noticed the word "congregation"... (congregation > organization)
Eden
EdenOne
JoinedPosts by EdenOne
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406
Goodbye JWD/JWN (my last post)
by slimboyfat inafter some considerable thought i have decided that i will no longer post on this forum because i want to return to jehovah.
thank you for all the kindness and many interesting discussions over the years.
i wish you all well in the future and the decisions you make.
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188
A Manual for Creating Atheists by Peter Boghossian
by cofty ina manual for creating atheists offers the first-ever guide not for talking people into faith--but for talking them out of it.
peter boghossian draws on the tools he has developed and used for more than twenty years as a philosopher and educator to teach how to engage the faithful in conversations that will help them value reason and rationality, cast doubt on their religious beliefs, mistrust their faith, abandon superstition and irrationality, and ultimately embrace reason.
- amazon.... "boghossian has provided an indispensible chart book for all of us who must navigate the rising sea of magical thinking that is inundating america today.
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EdenOne
If only someone had told this to the early christian church when they killed Zeus and the other hellinistic gods...
I'm sure you haven't missed the fact that I wasn't talking about any God in particular, but the "divinity", whatever it may be for anyone .... right?
Eden
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406
Goodbye JWD/JWN (my last post)
by slimboyfat inafter some considerable thought i have decided that i will no longer post on this forum because i want to return to jehovah.
thank you for all the kindness and many interesting discussions over the years.
i wish you all well in the future and the decisions you make.
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EdenOne
I don't know SBF for years as most of you do, but this seems rather strange, especially the language used. I wonder if he was writing it at gunpoint...
In any case, one must do what one must do. Perhaps Cofty pushed him back firmly into the believers pitch ...
I hope I haven't seen the last of SBF, here or otherwise. All the best to you, SBF!
Eden
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188
A Manual for Creating Atheists by Peter Boghossian
by cofty ina manual for creating atheists offers the first-ever guide not for talking people into faith--but for talking them out of it.
peter boghossian draws on the tools he has developed and used for more than twenty years as a philosopher and educator to teach how to engage the faithful in conversations that will help them value reason and rationality, cast doubt on their religious beliefs, mistrust their faith, abandon superstition and irrationality, and ultimately embrace reason.
- amazon.... "boghossian has provided an indispensible chart book for all of us who must navigate the rising sea of magical thinking that is inundating america today.
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EdenOne
Why do beleivers try to prove things with metaphors and illustrations?
Why do science teachers do the same, Cofty?
Eden
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188
A Manual for Creating Atheists by Peter Boghossian
by cofty ina manual for creating atheists offers the first-ever guide not for talking people into faith--but for talking them out of it.
peter boghossian draws on the tools he has developed and used for more than twenty years as a philosopher and educator to teach how to engage the faithful in conversations that will help them value reason and rationality, cast doubt on their religious beliefs, mistrust their faith, abandon superstition and irrationality, and ultimately embrace reason.
- amazon.... "boghossian has provided an indispensible chart book for all of us who must navigate the rising sea of magical thinking that is inundating america today.
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EdenOne
Cofty,
To me, there is merit in educating people to use their mental abilities have a better understanding of the world and the universe around them and therefore live a better life. If that leads people to question the usefulness of a divine entity, it's purpose, and ultimately, the very need for the existence of such entity, so be it. The outcome may lead to atheism, to agnosticism, to apatheism, or to an invigorated sense of theism or spirituallity. However, to set oneself for the goal to destroy the sense of spirituallity, the sense of connection to someone and something greater than ourselves, that is to kill something within us that makes us being uniquely humans. To "kill" God is to kill also part of our humanity.
Eden
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188
A Manual for Creating Atheists by Peter Boghossian
by cofty ina manual for creating atheists offers the first-ever guide not for talking people into faith--but for talking them out of it.
peter boghossian draws on the tools he has developed and used for more than twenty years as a philosopher and educator to teach how to engage the faithful in conversations that will help them value reason and rationality, cast doubt on their religious beliefs, mistrust their faith, abandon superstition and irrationality, and ultimately embrace reason.
- amazon.... "boghossian has provided an indispensible chart book for all of us who must navigate the rising sea of magical thinking that is inundating america today.
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EdenOne
Captain,
If that's the outcome that YOU arrive to, you take responsability for it. But you don't seem to be ready to accept that there may be different outcomes for different people, because you already have a pre-disposition to believe in it in a certain way. You say that spiritual cannot be tested, therefore cannot be true. I disagree.
Consider for a moment the speed of light in vaccuum. Since 1676, with Ole Romer, that it was demonstrated that light travelled at a finite speed. But exactly how fast? Now, imagine that I lived in 1676 and claimed that light travelled at 299,792,458 metres per second. With the technology of that era this could not be demonstrated. Therefore, as per your reasoning, since it could not be tested, therefore it could not be true. It was only in 1975 that this could be demonstrated. However, back in 1676, I would be right, and you would be wrong! Just because the 'spiritual cannot be tested', this doesn't mean it cannot be true.
It may never be tested, or it may be tested sometime in the future. But that lack of testing doesn't render it impossible, only less probable, as per what we know today.
Eden
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188
A Manual for Creating Atheists by Peter Boghossian
by cofty ina manual for creating atheists offers the first-ever guide not for talking people into faith--but for talking them out of it.
peter boghossian draws on the tools he has developed and used for more than twenty years as a philosopher and educator to teach how to engage the faithful in conversations that will help them value reason and rationality, cast doubt on their religious beliefs, mistrust their faith, abandon superstition and irrationality, and ultimately embrace reason.
- amazon.... "boghossian has provided an indispensible chart book for all of us who must navigate the rising sea of magical thinking that is inundating america today.
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EdenOne
Jgnat, thank you for the article, btw. Interesting reading so far.
Eden
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188
A Manual for Creating Atheists by Peter Boghossian
by cofty ina manual for creating atheists offers the first-ever guide not for talking people into faith--but for talking them out of it.
peter boghossian draws on the tools he has developed and used for more than twenty years as a philosopher and educator to teach how to engage the faithful in conversations that will help them value reason and rationality, cast doubt on their religious beliefs, mistrust their faith, abandon superstition and irrationality, and ultimately embrace reason.
- amazon.... "boghossian has provided an indispensible chart book for all of us who must navigate the rising sea of magical thinking that is inundating america today.
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EdenOne
Cofty,
To get back on this thread's focus as you requested, I would say "Why not?". After all, haven't religious people, notably amongst them, the Jehovah's Witnesses, been attempting to proselityze others since our inception? What moral authority would I have if I would criticize an atheist for attempting to proselytize a believer? My criticism goes to those who criticize the Witnesses for preaching religion all the while themselves are caught doing exactly the same thing for science (in this case, atheism wrapped in science) on every possible ocasion. That's all.
Is there merit in the endeavour? If the goal is to cause a believer to lose faith in the divine being (in abstract, whomever that person considers to be his/hers divinity, Jehovah or someone else), I think that in itself it has no merit whatsoever. If, on the other hand, the goal is to help someone to use reason to reach a more balanced view of life and the cosmos, and better separate what is 'material' from what is 'spiritual', then I concede that there might be some merit to it.
However, I would add, given the title of the book, its purpose is very clear.
Eden
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188
A Manual for Creating Atheists by Peter Boghossian
by cofty ina manual for creating atheists offers the first-ever guide not for talking people into faith--but for talking them out of it.
peter boghossian draws on the tools he has developed and used for more than twenty years as a philosopher and educator to teach how to engage the faithful in conversations that will help them value reason and rationality, cast doubt on their religious beliefs, mistrust their faith, abandon superstition and irrationality, and ultimately embrace reason.
- amazon.... "boghossian has provided an indispensible chart book for all of us who must navigate the rising sea of magical thinking that is inundating america today.
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EdenOne
Jgnat
I'm not aware that Steven Pinker ever linked the "ewww factor" with incest; if he did, I would stand corrected. Rather, he focused on human reactions to physiological items (feces, urine, blood, pus ... ) and rot. Interestingly, other studies concluded that children of up to 3 years old don't seem to be "hardwired" at all in this manner. Only when they start to clearly understand what their parents tell them to eat/don't eat or touch/don't touch, is when they develop the "ewww factor" and some other religious-based cognitions, such as "kosher food". Thus, even the "ewww factor", as universal as it may be, appears to have both cultural and biological causes, likely a combination of both, but where the cultural wheighs in more.
Eden
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188
A Manual for Creating Atheists by Peter Boghossian
by cofty ina manual for creating atheists offers the first-ever guide not for talking people into faith--but for talking them out of it.
peter boghossian draws on the tools he has developed and used for more than twenty years as a philosopher and educator to teach how to engage the faithful in conversations that will help them value reason and rationality, cast doubt on their religious beliefs, mistrust their faith, abandon superstition and irrationality, and ultimately embrace reason.
- amazon.... "boghossian has provided an indispensible chart book for all of us who must navigate the rising sea of magical thinking that is inundating america today.
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EdenOne
The answer to that is usually seen on what the perceived consequences are for the ones who break the morals. In most cases, the punishment for the transgression is attributed to the divinity (whatever that may be in each case), or to people acting on behalf of the divinity. So, also in this example, an ethic value ties in closely with religion.
Eden