Posts by EdenOne

154

Why Eve sinned (WT 8/2013)

by EdenOne in

adamah brought up in another thread an issue i wasn't aware of, and i thought it merged well with something i've been pondering about.

it revolves around the deeper reasons why satan was successful in persuading eve to eat from the forbidden fruit.

why was eve persuaded to disobey god?.

EdenOne

Since sin is defined as any act that violates God's Will

No, actually "sin" literally means "missing the target". It means becoming unfit to the purpose. I posite that the original sin, the sin that causes permanent death, is the absence of a spiritual bonding with God.

You quote Romans 5:12? That was a predicatable choice. Again, where can you honestly read in there that God caused Adam and Eve to die? You can only do so by resorting to a lot of extrapolation to lead to a conclusion based on theology that is incrusted within yourself.

The only thing we can tell for sure by the accounts of the miracles of Jesus is that forgiving sins leads to healing. Period. There is no epistemological need for sin to be the cause of death and ilness. That was the old Jewish superstition - see John 9:2, 3 and the rebuttal of Jesus.

Eden

154

Why Eve sinned (WT 8/2013)

by EdenOne in

adamah brought up in another thread an issue i wasn't aware of, and i thought it merged well with something i've been pondering about.

it revolves around the deeper reasons why satan was successful in persuading eve to eat from the forbidden fruit.

why was eve persuaded to disobey god?.

EdenOne

An omniscient being has no need for "experiments", wouldn't be unable to foresee the threat of "Satan subverting that purpose", etc, and has no need for fall-back plans, making it up as He goes, playing it by ear, etc, or any of the other concepts that apply to non-omniscient beings, since God would already KNOW what was going to happen.

If God was entirely omniscient and prescient, he would have destroyed Satan before he could cause damage to his plans, don't you think? Because a God of love that was simultaneously omniscient and prescient would know beforehand that Satan's agenda would cause mankind to get in all sorts of trouble and suffering, causing also humans to stop believing in a God of love. What kind of God would bring reproach upon his own name?

Eden

154

Why Eve sinned (WT 8/2013)

by EdenOne in

adamah brought up in another thread an issue i wasn't aware of, and i thought it merged well with something i've been pondering about.

it revolves around the deeper reasons why satan was successful in persuading eve to eat from the forbidden fruit.

why was eve persuaded to disobey god?.

EdenOne

Adamah: Your piece-meal speculative approach to theology by going beyond what the Bible actually SAYS is fun and all, but it grows tiresome since it's detached from any evidence (without even relying on scripture, LOL!).

Fair warning was given beforehand that this was a speculative exercise. So I don't really care if people think this is a serious exercise or not.

Sigh, the tiresome 'God didn't kill them, it was a natural consequence' defense.

Ok, so please give me one Bible reference that proves that God caused their death.

Eden, you've arguing against what the Bible actually says

No, I'm arguing within the limits (admmittedly on the edge) of what the Bible says, but up until now, I don't see any evidence of whatever I said was antibiblical.

Eden

154

Why Eve sinned (WT 8/2013)

by EdenOne in

adamah brought up in another thread an issue i wasn't aware of, and i thought it merged well with something i've been pondering about.

it revolves around the deeper reasons why satan was successful in persuading eve to eat from the forbidden fruit.

why was eve persuaded to disobey god?.

EdenOne

Hundreds of millions of years before? How are you interpreting the days?

I don't know, whatever number rocks your boat. To me, the days are representative of different phases, from the point of view of the writer of Genesis. Of course those aren't literal days of 24 hours, not symbolic periods of 1000 years each, nor 7.000 years each, nor do they have similar lenghts between them.

Eden

154

Why Eve sinned (WT 8/2013)

by EdenOne in

adamah brought up in another thread an issue i wasn't aware of, and i thought it merged well with something i've been pondering about.

it revolves around the deeper reasons why satan was successful in persuading eve to eat from the forbidden fruit.

why was eve persuaded to disobey god?.

EdenOne

So what was the point of Adam and Eve then? Just a failed experiment?

It was an experiment, for sure. God wanted to give human beings the possibility to rise to the spiritual world and become "like Gods" - but in his terms and in his time. Satan was successful in subverting that purpose. But God didn't give up his idea, and with Christ he actually extended that offer to every human being, based on faith, and not on genetics.

Eden

154

Why Eve sinned (WT 8/2013)

by EdenOne in

adamah brought up in another thread an issue i wasn't aware of, and i thought it merged well with something i've been pondering about.

it revolves around the deeper reasons why satan was successful in persuading eve to eat from the forbidden fruit.

why was eve persuaded to disobey god?.

EdenOne

It describes the animals being created at around the same time as Adam and Eve.

Actually it describes the animal world coming to existence before Adam and Eve. That's not so nonsensical. And if the Homo Sapiens living on earth were just sophisticated animals, then they also can be included amongst the animals that existed on earth before Adam and Eve. What makes this particular couple of Homo Sapiens so special is that God decided to make a man "in his image", that is, with a spiritual quality that would enable them to step into the spiritual world at a later stage.

Eden

154

Why Eve sinned (WT 8/2013)

by EdenOne in

adamah brought up in another thread an issue i wasn't aware of, and i thought it merged well with something i've been pondering about.

it revolves around the deeper reasons why satan was successful in persuading eve to eat from the forbidden fruit.

why was eve persuaded to disobey god?.

EdenOne

LOL, Jgnat! Gawd, you're terrible

154

Why Eve sinned (WT 8/2013)

by EdenOne in

adamah brought up in another thread an issue i wasn't aware of, and i thought it merged well with something i've been pondering about.

it revolves around the deeper reasons why satan was successful in persuading eve to eat from the forbidden fruit.

why was eve persuaded to disobey god?.

EdenOne

So do Adam and Eve have any descendants today?

Is there anybody alive today who has no connection to Adam and Eve?

I have no idea, but I would suppose there are plenty of people living today that may have some geneological connection with Adam and Eve; However, the majority won't have any connection with them. But that's completely irrelevant, as "sin" isn't transmitted genetically.

Eden

154

Why Eve sinned (WT 8/2013)

by EdenOne in

adamah brought up in another thread an issue i wasn't aware of, and i thought it merged well with something i've been pondering about.

it revolves around the deeper reasons why satan was successful in persuading eve to eat from the forbidden fruit.

why was eve persuaded to disobey god?.

EdenOne

Cofty, in my scenario, God kickstarted the universe and the laws of physics that rule it. Then things evolved in the way science says they did, perhaps God tinkering with life here and there. This evolutionary process resulted in the evolution of life and then early hominids and then the Homo Sapiens. At this point, some 6.000 years ago, God took interest in this species that was sophisitcated enough to be elevated to a higher level, but lacked a spiritual bond with God, the bond of sonship such as the one the spiritual creatures enjoyed. So God decided to create two Homo Sapiens who were given that spiritual bond from inception. These were Adam and Eve, in everything else physically similar to the other humans.

skip forward

Things didn't go as planned and that couple loses their sonship status with thir creator. God still takes care of them for a while, but they are no longer living in the controlled environment of Eden. Their descendants mix with the other Homo Sapiens outside the Garden of Eden, and whatever genetic fingerprint they might have had merged with the rest of mankind.

Eden

154

Why Eve sinned (WT 8/2013)

by EdenOne in

adamah brought up in another thread an issue i wasn't aware of, and i thought it merged well with something i've been pondering about.

it revolves around the deeper reasons why satan was successful in persuading eve to eat from the forbidden fruit.

why was eve persuaded to disobey god?.

EdenOne

Finkelstein: A loving and just god would have given her a second chance.

I tend to agree with you. Except, their death wasn't a punishment. It was simply the natural consequence of their severing the spiritual bond with their creator, which would have resulted in them having the possibility to live forever in the spiritual realm once their natural life on earth was completed. God didn't say:" In the day you eat from the fruit I shall kill you". No, he said "you shall die". This doesn't mean God killed them as punishment, does it?

Eden