EdenOne

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Posts by EdenOne

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  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
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  EdenOne

  Cofty, let me go back to what I said previously. God CAN know everything if he chooses to become familiar with such thing. Doesn't mean he is informed at all times of everything taking place in every corner of the physical universe. After all, he also has a spiritual realm to deal with. Hence why he decided to come down and personally appraise the situation with Sodom after hearing many unfavorable reports about it. So if he chooses to, there is no subject, no person, no knowledge that is impossible for God to know or not see. Again, if he chooses to get familiar with said person / subject.

  What seems rather obvious to me is that God stepped aside from the scene and decided to stop interveining in the human affairs after Christ's resurrection, handing over all authority to the Son. Still, the Hope that He made available makes Him worthy of my worship.

  Eden
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  How would I know that, zound? For what I can tell in the Bible God isn't entirely "all-knowing", in the sense of being all the time aware of everything that goes on everywhere.

  Eden
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  If God can't deny himself then, by definition, he isn't "all-powerful".

  Why do we, humans, assume that God's business is to look after us 24/7/365 ? Is God our personal concierge service, by any chance? If you regard God in that way, no wonder you feel disapointed.

  Eden
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  caliber,

  I'm actually capable of controlling myself pretty well, but inside I'm far from a calm person, sadly. Sometimes it surfaces, and I get too emotional for my own good.

  Eden
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  zound,

  Do you deny that competition, selfishness and mercilessness are predominant features in nature?

  How can you expect with a simple crossline over a word ascribe them to God?

  Eden
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  It's the hope that he offers that makes Him worthy of awe

  Wouldn't this by number 15?

  15. Suffering will be unimportant compared to eternal rewards

  No, because involuntary suffering cannot be unimportant, no matter how great the "eternal reward" is.

  Eden
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  zound

  Just go down to a local childrens hospital then come back here and tell us all about how god is completely moral by not intervening.

  I don't need to go that far to see that kind of scene. The non-interventionism of God doesn't make him moral; doesn't make him amoral either. It's the hope that he offers that makes Him worthy of awe; It's the fact that we, humans, can show empathy, compassion, selfless interest in others, something we hardly see in nature, where the norm is competition, selfishness and mercilesness, that reveals that God operates within and through each one of us, even those who don't believe He exists.

  Eden
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Cofty:

  "Sorry to all the hundreds of thousands of victims of the tsunami. Don't take it personally, you were collateral damage.

  By the way I wasn't to blame, it's not like I invented earthquakes - oh shit.

  Be assured that you did not die in vain, your broken corpses triggered some feelings of altruism in some prosperous western protestants so that was nice.

  Well anyway see you in the afterlife. You were all born-again christians weren't you? No! Oh well your pain is just beginning" God

  Appeal to ridicule fallacy.

  Eden
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Adamah:

  So let's see: God allows Jesus to suffer and be tortured to death at the hands of men, since God really loved Jesus, his firstborn Son, and allowing it to happen shows us how much God loves the rest of us, where Jesus' death was required by God in order to repay a debt owed to God due to Adam's fruit-eating binge?

  The above quote shows me how much you're still in JW land. Jesus' death was a symbol of redemption, something that we can look up to and put faith in it. If God didn't hold back from us his very own son, he will also surely extend us salvation. There's no "adamic debt to repay to God". There is simply a sonship towards God that each one individually must regain. Besides, Jesus volunteered for that mission, didn't he?

  Or are non-believers such ethical giants in comparison to believers that it only makes it appear that way?

  Now, now....are we having delusions of megalomany now?

  Eden
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Cofty, i disagree that my observation falls under #8 or #15

  8. It wasn't god's time to act

  Response - Is there a better time for a loving god to act than before the tsunami kills a quarter of a million innocent people?

  I don't say God will EVER act to stop a natural disaster. It's not about HIS timing nor OUR timing. He just decided that he won't, and let living beings deal with it.

  15. Suffering will be unimportant compared to eternal rewards

  Response - This is ethically repugnant. It is an extreme example of "the end justifies the means" defense, so beloved of tyrants.

  Suffering does matter to God, and all the more the suffering of those he loves. The fact that God doesn't intervein to stop natural calamities has nothing to do with a relative importance of present life suffering versus the "eternal reward". Yes, it is of relative importance, but that doesn't implicate that God is causing it to teach us a lesson or to better us as people. God offers hope which helps us a great deal to cope with the horrific outcomes of some natural disasters. that's enough for me to have a sense of gratitude towards Him. And, as a colateral result of natural disasters, sometimes natural calamities bring out the best in people, which is a testimony to the goodness and altruism that we usually don't see much of it in nature, and is a reflexion of the divine spark within each one of us.

  Eden