i just wanted to get a feel for how many here have awakened to ttatt but are still carrying on some jw activities to pacify them and keep the peace.
also trying to hear from those who have left, but whose spouse has stayed in the wt and in the marriage.. for me it comes down to my own mental anguish.
i am mentally tortured by attending the meetings, yet i feel compelled to because my wife would kill me with her personality if i had her drag 2 small girls by herself there.
Wife and a lot of family still in. My son is out (inactive). I'm still in trying to do as little as possible, just enough not to get inactive, for the sake of keeping family anf friends. I'm waiting for a certain thing to happen (should take place within this following year) to leave altogether.
Eden
most of us are reasonably familiar with reports of scandalous goings-on of that old jellyfish lecher, the founder of the watchtower cult, the one and only charles taze russell.. but, are these stories true?.
this thread is going to be devoted to his allegedly scurrilous activities.
so, bookmark it, please, bro' focus is in possession of noo light, and we're going to explore russell like you've never seen him explored before.. we're approaching his 100th death anniversary, and for all i know this virtual exhumation may lead to a real one.
EdenOne , you see - I never bluff.
I never asserted that you would. I merely pointed out that relying solely on a single, biased source like the Brooklyn Daily Eagle is a common trap that other researchers have fallen for in the past. The article barely passes the credibility test - I only find it believable because it places Maria Russell in a court room where other eye-witnesses could testify her presence [if that would ever come under dispute]. If there was a hotell bill, a train ticket or a picture, it would add considerable wheight. As it stands, it's believable, but just. I look forward to further material.
Eden
my study responds to the articles inspiration and canon in the book, insight on the scriptures.
there can be few topics of more significance, regardless of ones attitude to the bible.. http://www.jwstudies.com/god-breathed_scriptures.pdf .
doug.
The problem with the early church was CONTENT. What shall we talk about in our meetings? Sure, eye-witnesses had much to say about their experience with Jesus, but what about where no eye-witnesses were available to the local community? Travelling ministers. But what to do when those weren't present? That's when the material from the apostolic letters began to circulate among the congregations and in time it became so revered that it was elevated to "holy scripture" status.
Eden
my study responds to the articles inspiration and canon in the book, insight on the scriptures.
there can be few topics of more significance, regardless of ones attitude to the bible.. http://www.jwstudies.com/god-breathed_scriptures.pdf .
doug.
Thanks, Emery! Good catch.
Eden
my study responds to the articles inspiration and canon in the book, insight on the scriptures.
there can be few topics of more significance, regardless of ones attitude to the bible.. http://www.jwstudies.com/god-breathed_scriptures.pdf .
doug.
Doug
I'm not an expert in greek, but something caught my attention. Paul wrote: πᾶσα γραφὴ θεόπνευστος [literally: "every" "scripture" "God-breathed"]
The way the vast majority of Bible translations render this as "Every scripture is God-inspired ..." However the verb to be ["is"] has been inserted into the text, i.e. it has been assumed. In greek, this verb ἐστί is absent from the text that Paul wrote.
Some translators, noticing this absence, translated the text in this manner, which makes a subtle, yet most significant change:
" Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness." - ASV, ERV
" For all scripture inspired of God is profitable to teach, to reprove, to chastise, [for] to learn in rightwiseness," - WYC
"every Writing [is] God-breathed, and profitable for teaching, for conviction, for setting aright, for instruction that [is] in righteousness," - YLT
What's the difference?
If Paul had written "Every scripture is inspired by God", then he was qualifying a certain catalog of 'holy writings' , presumably the Septuagint /MT, which would be the "Every Scripture".
However, if Paul has written: "Every scripture inspired by God is profitable....", then this subtle change indicates that Paul wasn't talking about a set catalog of 'holy writings', but he was making a general, universal remark that any and every scripture that was inspired by God is, therefore, naturally profitable for teaching, etc, without necessarily making reference to a set catalog of holy books. This leaves an open discussion as to exactly what works could be accepted as "God-breathed", which is exactly the situation around the time Paul wrote this, where there wasn't a closed catalog, a canon, of holy books, both for the OT and the NT.
I'm not sure I'm expressing myself clearly, but I think the readers can see my point.
Eden
my study responds to the articles inspiration and canon in the book, insight on the scriptures.
there can be few topics of more significance, regardless of ones attitude to the bible.. http://www.jwstudies.com/god-breathed_scriptures.pdf .
doug.
Doug,
My point is that, if the term was used before Paul "invented" it, it would be very helpful to look at how it was used, and its intended meaning and context. That way one could better undestand what Paul had in mind when he used "theopneustos".
Eden
forgive me for indulging in a goodbye but it would feel wrong not to,.
i hope the discussions and atmosphere here do not change for it is a bubbling brew of doubt, bravery and sincere hunger for answers.
these are healthy ingrediants for humans and especially for a jehovah's witness.. this forum offers not just the ability to ask without consequence, but it also offers the means to be real.
Congratulations S&R! Enjoy life ahead of you and use your education to help others. More friends will come. Thank you for your contributions here.
Eden
most of us are reasonably familiar with reports of scandalous goings-on of that old jellyfish lecher, the founder of the watchtower cult, the one and only charles taze russell.. but, are these stories true?.
this thread is going to be devoted to his allegedly scurrilous activities.
so, bookmark it, please, bro' focus is in possession of noo light, and we're going to explore russell like you've never seen him explored before.. we're approaching his 100th death anniversary, and for all i know this virtual exhumation may lead to a real one.
Very interesting. It seems that the old mantra : "Don't take it to court so not to bring reproach upon Jehovah's name" was a lesson learned after Russel's failed court cases, when he feared having his private life exposed before the public eye. Avoiding litigation means in fact try at all costs to keep The skeletons deep inside the closets.
Eden
my study responds to the articles inspiration and canon in the book, insight on the scriptures.
there can be few topics of more significance, regardless of ones attitude to the bible.. http://www.jwstudies.com/god-breathed_scriptures.pdf .
doug.
Doug, one question.
The term that Paul used, 'theopneustos', you say its a neologism. You make a good point that Paul never used that word before or after, and in Christian writings isn't used before this time. I was wondering if its the same for the entire greek language. Are there any other instances of this term in other greek works that aren't related with Christianity, BEFORE Paul used t?
Eden
my study responds to the articles inspiration and canon in the book, insight on the scriptures.
there can be few topics of more significance, regardless of ones attitude to the bible.. http://www.jwstudies.com/god-breathed_scriptures.pdf .
doug.
Thank you Doug. A lot of research has gone into the article, and I'm half-way into it. Well done, and thank you.
Eden
