stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.
what exactly is "belief"?.
is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?
Viviane: I lack belief due to lack of evidence.
Lack of evidence leads to lack of knowledge.
In turn, lack of knowledge may lead to lack of belief, but not necessarily. Some people believe - or don't believe - irrespective of knowledge to justify such beliefs.
Eden
stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.
what exactly is "belief"?.
is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?
I'm asking. It usually means I don't know, but I'm interested in knowing.
Eden
stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.
what exactly is "belief"?.
is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?
Stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.
What exactly is "belief"?
Is it the same to ask: "Do you believe in God?" or "Do you believe in the pope?" or "Do you believe in this report on the news?" The word is the same, but I think it has different value in the three situations above.
To question if someone believes in God, it has implicit that what is being questioned is the existence of God. However, to question if one believes the pope, it's not the existence of the pope that's implicit in the question, but rather, if you agree that he or the church he leads represents Jesus or God on earth. To ask if you believe a certain information questions if you hold it as credible as truth or fact.
In ancient greek, two terms dealt with concepts akin to belief: Pistis and Doxa. The first dealt with trust and confidence, the latter with opinion and acceptance. But since no distinction exists in English, when we're dealing with how atheism asserts the non-belief in deities, what belief exactly are we talking about?
Eden
warning children do not enter this page or those who are sensitive.
i have warned you.
scroll to bottom of page.
i've been lurking for about 3 months now and thought i'd better finally sign up.
you have all been an immense help to me as i have come to realize that this isn't the truth so i want to say a great big thank you!
what a crazy, emotional ride it is to finally face the truth about the doubts that i have carried for many years.
Stumpy, a heartfelt hug for you and your wife.
One thing you shouldn't do is to make decisions in a rush at this moment. You and your wife should calmly devise a strategy on what to do and how to do it. Once you learn that the Jehovah's Witnesses don't have "the truth", you must figure out what to do with that information. You must ask yourselves what are you willing to lose by leaving. If you still believe in God at the end of this process (many end up losing their faith, and I can assure you there's nothing tragic with it) you should be willing to re-evaluate what God wants, what is God, and if he's really there to begin with. One thing I did was to look back into my life as a believer and consider if all the things I used to credit Jehovah for in my personal life couldn't have an explanation that didn't require a supernatural intervention.
For the time being, you and your wife should indulge in your thirst for information. Read, read, read. Educate yourselves, because that will only reinforce your conviction that "the truth" is something that the Watchtower doesn't possess, and that they are just another false religion. This will also strenghten you both to resist the emotional pull / guilt trip to return. Make no mistake, it's a very very powerful pull, and some begin to rationalize that they can live with their doubts, or stay because of the social aspects of the life as a Witness, or that the Watchtower isn't so bad, because they're only "imperfect men".
The more you educate yourselves, the more you'll realize the monstruosity of this life-sucking cult, and the less inclined you'll become to stay in it, because God has nothing to do with it.
And, as DoC said, DON'T DISCUSS THIS WITH ANYONE, TRUST NO ONE, even your dearest friend. When the "cult mode" kicks in, the Witness is conditioned to respond by defending 'mother' at all cost. Beware!
Eden
i know of the local congregation's issues, per an elder i know quite well.
he has said that nearly everyone in the congregation is suffering emotionally and mentally.
he said he has never seen so many witnesses with so many problems.
There are happy and unhappy people everywhere. Many JWs have unhappy lives due to issues of diverse nature and find solace in the meetings and their brethren and their hope. However, many lead "good, clean, christian" lives and yet feel miserable and depressed, and they don't even stop to consider the negative impact that their religion is having in their lives. The mere thought of that is enough to make them feel guilty, and they supress those thoughts. Elders will also make sure that the religion won't be blamed for any problems whatsoever, because "Jehovah knows what's best for us".
Eden
i found this on yahoo news... while it doesn`t raise an important question... it raises an interesting question... .
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i've been lurking for about 3 months now and thought i'd better finally sign up.
you have all been an immense help to me as i have come to realize that this isn't the truth so i want to say a great big thank you!
what a crazy, emotional ride it is to finally face the truth about the doubts that i have carried for many years.
Chris Hannover
If you do what you're told, you're called spiritual.
This. It boils down to this. You may be an elder, pioneer, participate in every "privilege" ... the moment you hesitate in doing what you're told, question the direction or teaching ... you're no longer spiritually healthy.
Eden
if you are in the uk check out an interesting new documentary series that starts on bbc2 at 9pm, this evening or catch up on iplayer.. from pleasure to sindiarmaid macculloch explores how christianity has shaped western attitudes to sex, gender and sexuality throughout history, beginning by examining how the early christians transformed intercourse from a biological necessity into a vice and from a pleasure into a sin.
the historian explains how greek ideas of sexual abstinence were adopted by the early christians, looks at how st paul, st jerome and st augustine developed increasingly negative ideas about sex, and tells the story of the rise of monasticism across the west.
Interesting. Will look forward to get this in my country. Diarmaid MacCulloch is a great author. His work "Christianity - The First Three Thousand Years" is a remarkable book.
Eden
this is a subject of some importance, the view of the witnesses, likely inherited from franz's influence, seems to be that early christianity developed as a separate religion to the jews.. the view of most contemporary scholars is that the separation occurred slowly, and that influential early christians (e.g.
such as paul, peter, john and james) still saw themselves as jews.. to those of us that are no longer christians (and, most ex-witnesses here, seem to gradually move to that position) this is not an important issue.. but to an organisation that claims it has "the truth," surely it should know the truth about its origins.
yet the evidence is that the modern day religion of jehovah's witnesses, does not know the "truth" concerning the origins of early christianity.
The history regarding the Ebionites and the Nazorean groups should be of great interest, because they represent the best glimpse we got into the earlier core group of jewish folowers of Jesus, led or inspired by James, the Just and the descendants of one of Jesus' brothers, Joses. If we are to understand better what Jesus was and make an educated guess at what were his teachings and his world view, that's where we have to focus.
Although stretching a bit some conclusions, and not an easy reading, I recommend Robert Eisenman's "James, The Brother Of Jesus"; also the excellent work of James D. Tabor: "Paul and Jesus - How The Apostle Transformed Christianity". They should persuade you that the Jesus movement was not about starting a new religion separated from judaism, but it was Paul that took it in that direction.
Eden
