Posts by EdenOne

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

EdenOne

Ruby:

edenOne, help me out, what didn't you understand?

The part about cognitive behavioral therapy of an ex-jw. The phrasing is confusing to me, and I din't get what you were trying to convey.

Eden

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

EdenOne

Cofty: You just did.

Ruby: I didn't understand what you were trying to say.

Eden

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

EdenOne

My initial question is what exactly is "belief", especially when used in the context of the definition of atheism - "lack of belief in the existence of God or deities".

Since the lack of belief is said to be supported on the lack of evidence, my perplexity is this: Lack of evidence leads to lack of knowledge. [You may call this a "major unfounded assertion", but you haven't proven me wrong.] I can only know something because I have evidence about it. If I don't have evidence about it, best I can do is to say that I don't know, or make an educated guess. Ergo, lack of evidence leads to lack of knowledge.

What is more logically sound, then:

"There's no evidence, therefore, I don't know"; or

"There's no evidence, therefore, I lack belief?"

Eden

87

Why people don't believe in God

by pressman in

do you want to know why i think people don't believe in god?

well i believe people don't want to believe in god because they are scared.

they know that if they finally do gorge the confidence to believe in him, he might discipline them for their skepticism.

EdenOne

you just need to believe

If God is at least half all-powerful, for sure he could find a way to provide unequivocal EVIDENCE of his existence, so that we don't have to rely on belief, but in true knowledge. Why would God require us to believe, when it would be so easy to let us know? There's no virtue of faith over knowledge that I can think of.

Alas, we're still waiting.

Eden

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

EdenOne

From Merriam-Webster:

"Belief"
a feeling of being sure that someone or something exists or that something is true
a feeling that something is good, right, or valuable
a feeling of trust in the worth or ability of someone
a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
something believed; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence

Notice that "belief" is characterized as a feeling, state of mind, conviction. Never as knowledge.

My question is: If lack of evidence cannot produce positive knowledge, on what grounds is the lack of belief of an atheist more sound than the belief of a theist?

That's a ridiculous platitude that makes a major unfounded assumption.

I stand corrected if you can prove me that lack of evidence can produce positive knowledge.

Eden

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

EdenOne

Viviane: I lack belief due to lack of evidence.

Lack of evidence leads to lack of knowledge.

In turn, lack of knowledge may lead to lack of belief, but not necessarily. Some people believe - or don't believe - irrespective of knowledge to justify such beliefs.

Eden

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

EdenOne

I'm asking. It usually means I don't know, but I'm interested in knowing.

Eden

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

EdenOne

Stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

What exactly is "belief"?

Is it the same to ask: "Do you believe in God?" or "Do you believe in the pope?" or "Do you believe in this report on the news?" The word is the same, but I think it has different value in the three situations above.

To question if someone believes in God, it has implicit that what is being questioned is the existence of God. However, to question if one believes the pope, it's not the existence of the pope that's implicit in the question, but rather, if you agree that he or the church he leads represents Jesus or God on earth. To ask if you believe a certain information questions if you hold it as credible as truth or fact.

In ancient greek, two terms dealt with concepts akin to belief: Pistis and Doxa. The first dealt with trust and confidence, the latter with opinion and acceptance. But since no distinction exists in English, when we're dealing with how atheism asserts the non-belief in deities, what belief exactly are we talking about?

Eden

8

Disturbing Demon Watchtower Subliminal (NEW)

by artcritic in

warning children do not enter this page or those who are sensitive.

i have warned you.

scroll to bottom of page.

EdenOne

sigh

205

Hi Everyone. Answer to prayer countdown...

by Stumpy in

jw
friends

i've been lurking for about 3 months now and thought i'd better finally sign up.

you have all been an immense help to me as i have come to realize that this isn't the truth so i want to say a great big thank you!

what a crazy, emotional ride it is to finally face the truth about the doubts that i have carried for many years.

EdenOne

Stumpy, a heartfelt hug for you and your wife.

One thing you shouldn't do is to make decisions in a rush at this moment. You and your wife should calmly devise a strategy on what to do and how to do it. Once you learn that the Jehovah's Witnesses don't have "the truth", you must figure out what to do with that information. You must ask yourselves what are you willing to lose by leaving. If you still believe in God at the end of this process (many end up losing their faith, and I can assure you there's nothing tragic with it) you should be willing to re-evaluate what God wants, what is God, and if he's really there to begin with. One thing I did was to look back into my life as a believer and consider if all the things I used to credit Jehovah for in my personal life couldn't have an explanation that didn't require a supernatural intervention.

For the time being, you and your wife should indulge in your thirst for information. Read, read, read. Educate yourselves, because that will only reinforce your conviction that "the truth" is something that the Watchtower doesn't possess, and that they are just another false religion. This will also strenghten you both to resist the emotional pull / guilt trip to return. Make no mistake, it's a very very powerful pull, and some begin to rationalize that they can live with their doubts, or stay because of the social aspects of the life as a Witness, or that the Watchtower isn't so bad, because they're only "imperfect men".

The more you educate yourselves, the more you'll realize the monstruosity of this life-sucking cult, and the less inclined you'll become to stay in it, because God has nothing to do with it.

And, as DoC said, DON'T DISCUSS THIS WITH ANYONE, TRUST NO ONE, even your dearest friend. When the "cult mode" kicks in, the Witness is conditioned to respond by defending 'mother' at all cost. Beware!

Eden