Posts by EdenOne

40

What Religious Trajectory Are The JWs Following?

by millie210 in

i was reading another thread and the comments got me thinking.... https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5656910430732288/pictures-tell-thousand-words.

comments such as oldskools: more like digital colonialism channeled through one of the weaker and less important institutions western society has to offer.. .

some have compared the orgs future path to the world wide church of gods.

EdenOne

I see a parallel between:

the change operated between 1917 (after Russell's death, Rutherford seizes power) and 1935 (under the mantle of the WTS, Rutherford discards the Bible Student Movement, chooses a new name, re-interprets the meaning of 1914, and introduces a radical new "two-hopes" theology). In the process, many who couldn't keep up with the changes were simply left behind. After a period of great decline, the WTS thrived again. A change that took 18 years to complete.

with:

The change that started in 2002 when Henschel stepped down as President of the Watchtower and the Governing Body seized complete control. Under the mantle of the WTS, a new religion is being forged, with a rebranding to JW.ORG, re-interpretation of the meaning of 1914 and "generation", heavy reliance on digital technology vs old-school printed publishing and embracing tele-evangelism and multimedia religion. In this process, those who can't keep up or don't recognize the religion they grew up with, fall by the wayside. After a period of great decline, the WTS should thrive again. We are 14 years into this transition. We haven't seen the end of it yet.

I think we're living this second time of transition, 90 years after the last one.

EdenOne

22

Are we sure that there aren't more 'compound'-ish structures?

by BlackSwan of Memphis in

wasn't sure where to put this but .... .

so mr bsom and i got to talking and we got to wondering if there aren't other compound like buildings being structured, or if assembly halls have been built with greater living quarters?

the entirety of this situation is really beginning to shape up like the davidians or jim jones.

EdenOne

Well Beth Shan had an anti-bomb bunker and Beth Sarin had a crypt built to bury Rutherford. And they have excavated tunnels under New York to connect several of their buildings. It's not too wild of an idea to think that they *may* have done something similar elsewhere in recent years. After all, they do believe their own myths, don't they?

But, sure as hell, the bunker would be for the elite, not for the rank and file....

EdenOne

147

Challenge to Creationists

by cofty in

in response to the 37 threads in my evolution is a fact series - see bottom of op for links - perry posted a link to an article "44 reasons why evolution isn't true".. i offered him a challenge on the thread and by pm.

predictably he is totally ignoring it, so i am offering the challenge to any evolution-denier who thinks they have evidence to support their position.. please present one specific piece of evidence for creationism.. my task will be to refute it with evidence within 24 hours.. then i will present one piece of evidence for evolution and your challenge will be the same.. all posts must be as succinct as reasonably possible.

entirely in your own words, without copy-paste, videos or links.. please post your interest to take part and we will set it up before the first actual post in the exchange.

EdenOne

I accept that life developed according to mechanisms explained by evolution; since there is no sufficient evidence that supports a credible explanation yet as to how life started in the first place, I leave that not-so-little unknown to uncertainty. A divine entity of sorts then becomes a possibility (albeit a very unlikely one, given the odds); hence I am an agnostic in principle and not an atheist.

However, a different sort of debate is: If a pre-existing intelligent form of life started life on earth purposely, does that entity resembles anything that any of the religions of the earth claim that divinity is? And does such entity require anything from me? On what grounds? Why should such entity merit my worship and obedience more than a biological father that abandoned me before I was even born would merit my affection? The way I see it, I see no reason to bother with a divinity that shows no observable care for me. Therefore I'm an apatheist.

EdenOne

15

'Kingdom of God's birth in heaven in 1914' - first reference?

by EdenOne in

can someone tell me please when was the first time that the wts published something to the effect that the kingdom of god was born in heavens in 1914 / jesus enthroned invisibly in 1914 ?

i see an obscure reference to an article in a golden age magazine in 1930 but i can't find the actual quote,.

not looking for quotes that talk about the "coming" or "presence" since 1914. i'm looking for actual mention that the kingdom started in heavens in 1914. when was the first ever time this was clearly said in the publications?

EdenOne

Hi SV and thank you for clearing this up.

It seems to me that the "1937" reference that I have found to the date of the Harp of God may have been a typo and was intended to be "1927" (the actual date for the publication of the book). I should have double-checked. In that case there wasn't a reversal in 1937.

I stand corrected.

EdenOne

15

'Kingdom of God's birth in heaven in 1914' - first reference?

by EdenOne in

can someone tell me please when was the first time that the wts published something to the effect that the kingdom of god was born in heavens in 1914 / jesus enthroned invisibly in 1914 ?

i see an obscure reference to an article in a golden age magazine in 1930 but i can't find the actual quote,.

not looking for quotes that talk about the "coming" or "presence" since 1914. i'm looking for actual mention that the kingdom started in heavens in 1914. when was the first ever time this was clearly said in the publications?

EdenOne

Bats in the belfry,

That bit seems to point to an article in a 1925 magazine. I'll try to locate it.

In any case I think we're looking at another case of multiple reversal of doctrine.

Eden

15

'Kingdom of God's birth in heaven in 1914' - first reference?

by EdenOne in

can someone tell me please when was the first time that the wts published something to the effect that the kingdom of god was born in heavens in 1914 / jesus enthroned invisibly in 1914 ?

i see an obscure reference to an article in a golden age magazine in 1930 but i can't find the actual quote,.

not looking for quotes that talk about the "coming" or "presence" since 1914. i'm looking for actual mention that the kingdom started in heavens in 1914. when was the first ever time this was clearly said in the publications?

EdenOne

Well, I stumbled on an actual quote from that 1930 article in the Golden Age. It reads:

"If it's true that Jesus has been present since the year 1914 then it must be admitted that nobody has seen him with his natural eyes"

I can't read the broader context of the article, it seems ambiguous. it can either be part of an apology or a rebuttal.

In any case, the same Golden Age magazine, in 1934, p.379, 380 is clear:

"(...) An examination of the scriptures containing the word parousia shows that the presence of the Lord could not date prior to 1914"

However, there seems to have been another reversal, for 3 years later in the book The Harp Of God, they go back to 1874:

"Applying the same rule, then, of a day per a year, 1355 days after 539 AD brings us to 1874 AD, at which time, according to Biblical chronology, the Lord's second presence is due" and "It was in the year 1874, the date of our Lord's second presence (...) - The Harp Of God (1937) p.235, 240

THEN, in 1943, with the book "The Truth Shall make You Free", it appears that the definitive (well....not quite definite as it seems now) change to 1914 was made.

Eden

15

'Kingdom of God's birth in heaven in 1914' - first reference?

by EdenOne in

can someone tell me please when was the first time that the wts published something to the effect that the kingdom of god was born in heavens in 1914 / jesus enthroned invisibly in 1914 ?

i see an obscure reference to an article in a golden age magazine in 1930 but i can't find the actual quote,.

not looking for quotes that talk about the "coming" or "presence" since 1914. i'm looking for actual mention that the kingdom started in heavens in 1914. when was the first ever time this was clearly said in the publications?

EdenOne

Can someone tell me please when was the first time that the WTS published something to the effect that the Kingdom of God was born in heavens in 1914 / Jesus enthroned invisibly in 1914 ? I see an obscure reference to an article in a Golden Age magazine in 1930 but I can't find the actual quote,

Not looking for quotes that talk about the "coming" or "presence" since 1914. I'm looking for actual mention that the kingdom started in heavens in 1914. When was the first ever time this was clearly said in the publications? (replacing the "old light" of 1874)

Thanks

Eden

71

2016 Regional Convention - Sunday Morning synopsis

by Jehalapeno in

jw
friends

via reddit.

here are the morning program highlights.

will update for the afternoon once it's all over.

EdenOne

If you have sold your home to simplify your life for loyalty to Jehovah, how and where in the world will you have a bunker to take shelter during the Great Tribulation?

EdenOne

52

Did The Witnesses Predict the United Nations in Advance?

by TD in

jw
friends

it's been reported on this forum that bethel speakers at this summer's conventions are asserting that the establishment of the united nations in 1945 was predicted in advance by the witnesses.

this is being presented as validation of the claim that the witnesses are god's one true organization directed by holy spirit.. .

the basis for this claim originates with a public address entitled, peace - can it last given by n.h. knorr at the new world theocratic assembly, on september 20 of 1942. .

EdenOne

Bookmarked. Great research here.

Eden

13

what more cuts might be in the pipeline

by pepperheart in

there have been so many cuts in the past few years in the jw world what do you think might be next?

EdenOne

I see Mega-Halls and Mega-Congregations in the larger cities where at least 5 congregations can share the building; in the countryside, meetings held in private homes with internet-streamed programs. All other KH sold.

I see Circuit Overseers disposed of and replaced by qualified COBE's who will visit neighboring congregations once a year with a reduced 2,5-day program (Friday evening to Sunday). CO's not too old will be re-assigned as COBE's of mega-congregations.

I see two multi-congregational conventions a year, lasting only 2 days (weekend), held in Convention Halls held by the JW's.

I see the disappearance of the Awake! magazine (first the paper edition, then the digital edition).

I see the disappearance of the paper study edition of the Watchtower magazine (only digital downloads).

I see the increase in printing of tracts and decrease in brochures and books. Possibly, only three study books (one for children, one basic, one advanced), plus the NWT Bible will remain being printed on a regular basis (plus specialized books such as the Manual for Elders etc). Everything else will be only available at the online library.

I see the increase in multi-media content production (including "christian music").

I see the scrapping of most Bethels still remaining, with only one or two Bethels for each continent. (Europe: UK and Germany; Africa: South Africa and Nigeria; Asia: Korea and India; Australia; North America: US; Central America: Mexico; South America: Brazil) The rest will be RTO's.

I see the multiplication of special "schools" to be held at week days at Convention Halls to maximize the use of these facilities.

EdenOne