Posts by EdenOne

60

The problem of sex (or why I'm not an atheist)

by EdenOne in

as i write this under the shadow of the walls of saint jorge's castle in lisbon, two very bored jws are standing just five metres away from me with a literature cart .... in my journey away from jwism i accepted evolution as a fact.

i also became anti-religion, agnostic and apatheist.

and, while i lean towards the persuasion of the atheist arguments, there are a few reasons that make it difficult for me to completely discard the notion of an intelligent origin of life.

EdenOne

Back on the OT:

What troubles me about the issue of sexual reproduction is this:

a) It appears to be general consensus that the earliest life forms reproduced by means of asexual replication. This is an integral copy of the original that copies itself and then separates. It's a simple, elegant and effective method.

b) It appears to be the general consensus that sexual reproduction appears in a much later stage of life.

The problem is, how did some organisms evolved from asexual to sexual reproduction? Because it's not a simple variation of the asexual method. It's a much more complex process that requires an enormous level of complexity at the very beginning (not saying that asexual reproduction isn't complex; but sexual reproduction is immensely MORE complex; it's a huge leap forward from asexual reproduction.)

For starters it requires that two separate organisms develop specialized, yet necessarily complementary genetic material, cut by half, that will be recombined by means of sexual activity. This is a gargantuan conceptual difference from asexual replication and can only work with a high level of complexity to start with.

60

The problem of sex (or why I'm not an atheist)

by EdenOne in

as i write this under the shadow of the walls of saint jorge's castle in lisbon, two very bored jws are standing just five metres away from me with a literature cart .... in my journey away from jwism i accepted evolution as a fact.

i also became anti-religion, agnostic and apatheist.

and, while i lean towards the persuasion of the atheist arguments, there are a few reasons that make it difficult for me to completely discard the notion of an intelligent origin of life.

EdenOne

OTWO - So even if you are not invoking God, you are leaning toward not understanding something complex and opening a door for something more complex to be the answer. One enormous hurdle leads to putting up more hurdles.

The way I see it, when faced with something that science can't explain with nothing more than conjecture, one can take one of the following routes:

a) Science can't explain this in a naturalistic way, therefore, God did it.

b) Science can't explain this in a naturalistic way, therefore, I'm open to the possibility that some unknown intelligence might have been involved in steering the process.

c) Science can't explain this in a naturalistic way, but I an certain that one day there will be such explanation, because it has consistently come up with such explanations so far.

d) Science can't explain this, and frankly it doesn't matter anyway.

e) Science can't explain this, and I'm comfortable not knowing.

Route a) doesn't work for me anymore because it's too simplistic and lazy and at the same time, poses issues of enormous complexity for which there is absolutely no evidence to back up, and is open to religious exploitation and deceit.

Route b) is a bit like discussing dark matter. We can't observe it, and we can't really describe its properties, but we're convinced that it's the only plausible explanation for some of the behavior of matter in our universe. It's a seductive idea, but it remains the realm of speculation, for is yet to be demonstrated.

Route c) I'm ok with those who take on this position; seems reasonable; but at the end of the day is of the same substance as belief.

Route d) I'm not comfortable with this. I think it matters.

Route e) Not really comfortable in not knowing. I want to find out!

60

The problem of sex (or why I'm not an atheist)

by EdenOne in

as i write this under the shadow of the walls of saint jorge's castle in lisbon, two very bored jws are standing just five metres away from me with a literature cart .... in my journey away from jwism i accepted evolution as a fact.

i also became anti-religion, agnostic and apatheist.

and, while i lean towards the persuasion of the atheist arguments, there are a few reasons that make it difficult for me to completely discard the notion of an intelligent origin of life.

EdenOne

Scratchme1010 - This is where I find an issue. The JWs promote this black and white mentality, that if you don't believe their nonsense then you have to believe the opposite. Where does it say anywhere that one has to become an atheist or evolutionist simply because you don't believe in religion or the bible?
Something that I learn was that the WT not only tells people what they are supposed to be, do and believe, but also tells them what they are supposed to be, do and believe if they leave. So, EdenOne, look for how much of your way of thinking may still be influenced by the way the WT promotes that people should think. Your post still resembles that all-or-nothing, black and white mentality. You don't need to be an atheist to believe in evolution, you don't need to believe in evolution to be an atheist, you don't need to constantly look for scientific proof if you truly believe in intelligent design. Your belief is just your choice.

While belief is very often a matter of choice, facts aren't a matter of choice. I have decided to lead my life where evidence takes me. And the Bible simply isn't supported by evidence. Actually, quite the contrary.

You make a lot of assumptions about me, which you wouldn't if you have followed my trajectory on this forum. When I began to realize that JW's weren't "the truth", I tried to savage my faith by doubling down my research of the Bible. I came up with many great 'discoveries' about beliefs, and developed a couple of theological constructs of my own. I published a website with the results of my research into the Bible. Many here must remember those days; it wasn't but a few years ago, perhaps three years ago. I sincerely believed still that there was merit to the Bible and the Christian faith. So, no, it's not true that when one leaves the JWs one necessarily has to believe the opposite of their nonsense.

The WT has no bearing in what I should embrace or not as truth after I left the JW's. It didn't have. I embraced agnosticism after extensive research into the very foundations of the Bible and of Christianity, especially research into the historical Jesus and the movement of Jesus' believers. it all came crashing down in flames.

It was the thorough deception of religious belief that let me to embrace the notion that one should lead life based on facts and evidence, instead of feeble feel-good faith. Wherever that may lead. I still find the Bible a fascinating work and Jesus and his movement a fascinating subject. But I see it from a historian's point of view and not through devotional lenses.

60

The problem of sex (or why I'm not an atheist)

by EdenOne in

as i write this under the shadow of the walls of saint jorge's castle in lisbon, two very bored jws are standing just five metres away from me with a literature cart .... in my journey away from jwism i accepted evolution as a fact.

i also became anti-religion, agnostic and apatheist.

and, while i lean towards the persuasion of the atheist arguments, there are a few reasons that make it difficult for me to completely discard the notion of an intelligent origin of life.

EdenOne

Cofty, your questions deserve a more lengthy reply. I'm still working, but I promise to come back to you later on.

60

The problem of sex (or why I'm not an atheist)

by EdenOne in

as i write this under the shadow of the walls of saint jorge's castle in lisbon, two very bored jws are standing just five metres away from me with a literature cart .... in my journey away from jwism i accepted evolution as a fact.

i also became anti-religion, agnostic and apatheist.

and, while i lean towards the persuasion of the atheist arguments, there are a few reasons that make it difficult for me to completely discard the notion of an intelligent origin of life.

EdenOne

Giordano, like I pointed out, the article was written by two people who are proponents of Intelligent Design. But, for once, as I also posted, can we forget about the messengers and focus on the message? I'm not advocating ID or theism. I would like to overcome this hurdle that represents the difficulty in coming up with a feasible explanation why evolution dictated the differentiation of sexual genre and sexual reproduction - how come two very different and necessarily interdependent reproductive apparatus have evolved for each species?

60

The problem of sex (or why I'm not an atheist)

by EdenOne in

as i write this under the shadow of the walls of saint jorge's castle in lisbon, two very bored jws are standing just five metres away from me with a literature cart .... in my journey away from jwism i accepted evolution as a fact.

i also became anti-religion, agnostic and apatheist.

and, while i lean towards the persuasion of the atheist arguments, there are a few reasons that make it difficult for me to completely discard the notion of an intelligent origin of life.

EdenOne

Island Man, I can see the advantages of a broader pool of genetic material versus a near carbon copy of cloning as produced by asexual reproduction. I'm puzzled as to why the cells replicate by means of mitosis cytokinesis but when it comes to reproduction it's a different process called meiosis cytokinesis. How come some living organisms developed such a differentiated process for reproduction while others kept the earlier and simpler (and more efficient) mechanism of mitosis? The process of meiosis is no simple variation of the process of mitosis. It envolves a very different process that couldn't work as a simple variation of mitosis, and in order to work it would have to start off as a complex process in itself.

60

The problem of sex (or why I'm not an atheist)

by EdenOne in

as i write this under the shadow of the walls of saint jorge's castle in lisbon, two very bored jws are standing just five metres away from me with a literature cart .... in my journey away from jwism i accepted evolution as a fact.

i also became anti-religion, agnostic and apatheist.

and, while i lean towards the persuasion of the atheist arguments, there are a few reasons that make it difficult for me to completely discard the notion of an intelligent origin of life.

EdenOne

What does evolution have to do with atheism? Seriously?

Atheism is defined as the absence of belief in deities. The absence of such belief isn't determined by acceptance of evolution; after all, the greek epicureans knew nothing about darwinian evolution and rejected the existence of gods, all the while there are respected evolutionists who accept the existence of the Christian god. However, in cases like mine, I can see how the evolution theory, if taken to its last consequences, lends to a disbelief in deities.

I'm not discussing here how life came to exist in the first place. The problem of sexual reproduction is central to the development of life and it ties inextricably with evolution. And that's where I find the evolutionary theory is seriously lacking an explanation the definitively rules out a supernatural / intelligent intervention.

Although I'm agnostic, I would rather be an atheist. Seriously. Being an agnostic is awkward because, not being sure of God's inexistence, I think that if God exists he/she is a bastard and not someone I would like to have interactions with or have my future dependent on. I would rather have no belief at all and that would be much better.

60

The problem of sex (or why I'm not an atheist)

by EdenOne in

as i write this under the shadow of the walls of saint jorge's castle in lisbon, two very bored jws are standing just five metres away from me with a literature cart .... in my journey away from jwism i accepted evolution as a fact.

i also became anti-religion, agnostic and apatheist.

and, while i lean towards the persuasion of the atheist arguments, there are a few reasons that make it difficult for me to completely discard the notion of an intelligent origin of life.

EdenOne

Nicolau, I'm not "invoking god" or anything. That's a theist apologist thing and I'm not one. I'm just saying that a major difficulty for me to embrace atheism is the inability of the evolutionary theory to explain why sexual reproduction ever came to exist and become the norm among living things.

The article basically sums up my issues with it. Do not pay attention to the messenger - stick to the message.

And thanks for correcting the link. My ipad doesn't like the forum format much.

60

The problem of sex (or why I'm not an atheist)

by EdenOne in

as i write this under the shadow of the walls of saint jorge's castle in lisbon, two very bored jws are standing just five metres away from me with a literature cart .... in my journey away from jwism i accepted evolution as a fact.

i also became anti-religion, agnostic and apatheist.

and, while i lean towards the persuasion of the atheist arguments, there are a few reasons that make it difficult for me to completely discard the notion of an intelligent origin of life.

EdenOne

As I write this under the shadow of the walls of Saint Jorge's Castle in Lisbon, two very bored JWs are standing just five metres away from me with a literature cart ...

In my journey away from JWism I accepted evolution as a fact. I also became anti-religion, agnostic and apatheist. And, while I lean towards the persuasion of the atheist arguments, there are a few reasons that make it difficult for me to completely discard the notion of an intelligent origin of life. One of such reasons is the problem of sexual reproduction and the inability of evolution theory to provide a satisfactory explanation for its existence.

I have found this excellent article that sums up my issue with it. The final paragraph betrays that it was written by a proponent of Intelligent Design, but that shouldn't invalidate the good points that are made regarding the difficulty of darwinian evolutionary theory to explain the process by which sexual reproduction came to exist.

Origins of Sex

Your thoughts?

9

Freedom of Religion vs. Freedom of Worship and Belief (or non-belief)

by EdenOne in

i was just wondering about this:.

the laws of the different western countries offer robust protection to religious practice.

but what is the best term to describe it and why?

EdenOne

It would be a simple matter of having a commission to study if religious groups were offending human rights. Those who would have policies that violate human rights would have their tax exemption status suspended for a period of 5 years. If no changes were brought forth, then the next step would be to strip that religious organization of their official recognition as a religion.

Eden