Posts by EdenOne

53

2017 Convention Recording: JWs Applaud 10yo Girl For Shunning Her Own Sister

by pale.emperor in

this poor girl was baptized at 9yo.

.

she isnt old enough to buy alcohol, to vote, to decide her own medical treatment, to buy a pet, to travel alone... yet she was deemed old enough to dedicate her life to a religion that will cut her off from her family if she ever leaves.. here she is applauded for shunning her own sister who tried to keep in contact with her after waking up.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yzgnfda8ki.

EdenOne

Revolting. Truly made me sick from watching it.

332

The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

by slimboyfat in

jehovah's witnesses have had to revise their chronology and various doctrinal interpretations due to events and scholarly corrections.

but the one teaching where they have been consistently ahead of the curve is the importance of jehovah's name.. .

i'm going to run through a (necessarily selective) timeline of jw events and scholarly publications that demonstrate the phenomenal success of this teaching in the last days.

EdenOne

Ruby,

The god of the OT is portrayed as sometimes being uber-zealous about purity and other times giving a free pass to outrageous behavior from his believers - especially if they were of a certain high rank.

(He can kill Uzzah from touching the covenant ark in a critical situation, or kill Aaron's sons, Nadab and Abihu, for seemingly offering incense after consuming wine. All the while giving a free pass to David and Beth-Sheba, Loth and his daughters, Solomon and his harem, Judah and fornicating with his daughter-in-law, King Manasseh and his violence and idolatry, etc ...)

A perfect god wouldn't be inconsistent as YHWH is portrayed in the OT. Which shows that he is a product of the people who worshipped that deity. The stories committed to written form about the god of the hebrews are no less mythological than the greek or the babylonian stories about their gods. The only reason why that mythology crept into christianity was because Jesus of Nazareth, who was exalted to divinity status by his later followers, clearly endorsed the jewish mythology about their god. By extension, Christian believers since St. Paul and the early apostles scrambled to justify the actions of the god of the OT in an attempt to give his actions a purpose consistent with christianity.

That's all there is to it.

332

The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

by slimboyfat in

jehovah's witnesses have had to revise their chronology and various doctrinal interpretations due to events and scholarly corrections.

but the one teaching where they have been consistently ahead of the curve is the importance of jehovah's name.. .

i'm going to run through a (necessarily selective) timeline of jw events and scholarly publications that demonstrate the phenomenal success of this teaching in the last days.

EdenOne

Where is the vowel ‘E’ in ‘adonai’.

There isn't any. The original interpolation was 'Yahovah'. The modern "Jehovah" is a further corruption of Yahovah.

And yes, "Jesus" is also a corrupted form of Yehoshua.

And, btw, "Yahweh" is also an interpolation of the letters of the Tetragrammon with the samaritan way of uttering God's name: YABE.

332

The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

by slimboyfat in

jehovah's witnesses have had to revise their chronology and various doctrinal interpretations due to events and scholarly corrections.

but the one teaching where they have been consistently ahead of the curve is the importance of jehovah's name.. .

i'm going to run through a (necessarily selective) timeline of jw events and scholarly publications that demonstrate the phenomenal success of this teaching in the last days.

EdenOne

It seems to me that pronunciation varies over time and across language anyway.

Tell you what ... I will start addressing you as rapazgordomagro, because that's more or less one possible way to translate your handle to my language. I'm sure to you it won't make a difference? ;)

Plus, obviously, everyone will know who am I talking about, especially after this thread will fall into oblivion.

332

The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

by slimboyfat in

jehovah's witnesses have had to revise their chronology and various doctrinal interpretations due to events and scholarly corrections.

but the one teaching where they have been consistently ahead of the curve is the importance of jehovah's name.. .

i'm going to run through a (necessarily selective) timeline of jw events and scholarly publications that demonstrate the phenomenal success of this teaching in the last days.

EdenOne

It's not enough to call it "silly". Please be kind enough to make your case using the Bible (WT style).

And again - the right kind of people? Why? For what purpose? Did god ever reveal such intention about his name? Because, after all, God doesn't do a thing without first revealing it to his prophets. (Amos 3:7) Where in the Scripture says that God will conceal his name and only the right people would one day make it known again? And, if the WT is doing so, does that mean they are God's prophets?

Instead, as per Ezekiel 39:7, God has failed his own prophetic purpose. He said: "I will make known my holy name among my people Israel and I will no longer let my holy name be profaned" Not only the natural Israel forgot what is the correct pronunciation of God's name, but the so-called "Spiritual Israel" of Christianity does not know the correct pronunciation of that name, and instead deliberately uses a form of the name they know is corrupted, unholy and profane.

332

The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

by slimboyfat in

jehovah's witnesses have had to revise their chronology and various doctrinal interpretations due to events and scholarly corrections.

but the one teaching where they have been consistently ahead of the curve is the importance of jehovah's name.. .

i'm going to run through a (necessarily selective) timeline of jw events and scholarly publications that demonstrate the phenomenal success of this teaching in the last days.

EdenOne

The argument is theologically moot.

Since Jesus has supposedly taught on the model prayer: "Let your name be sanctified", let us remind what is implied by the term 'sanctified'.

The Greek word is Hagiasthētō (Strong's 37). From Hagios: means "to make holy', 'purify', 'consecrate' (Strong) 'to render inviolable', 'to purify', 'to cleanse externally' (Thayer)

Since we can agree on the following:

a) No one knows what is the original and correct pronunciation of the tetragrammon; and

b) It is well known that the name "Jehovah" is an interpolation of the letters of the tatragrammon with the vowels of 'adonai', concocted by a catholic monk in the 13th century, and, therefore, it is impossible that represents the correct hebrew pronunciation;

It stands to reason that, as per our current knowledge, it is impossible that "Jehovah" is the original, pure, hebrew pronunciation of God's name - the name that the hebrew God has chosen for himself. Remember that no man can question God's choices or attempt to change them. To Isaiah he said: "Yes, from ancient days I am he (...) I act, and who can reverse it?" (Isaiah 43:13)

As per God's own statement, no man can reverse or pervert God's choices, including the choice of name and way of pronouncing it - in hebrew - that he picked for himself back in the days of the patriarchs.

Therefore, calling God by the name of "Jehovah", even if well-meaning, it has the effect of polluting, corrupting and bastardizing God's name. Isn't it the WT that insists at pointing to Galatians 5:7: "A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough" to say that even small amounts of corruption are enough to make an entire doctrine morally objectable to the Witnesses? The poor Uzzah thought he was doing something good by taking hold of the covenant ark when it was in peril of falling from a cart. In his eyes, it was a good deed. But God struck him, because he committed an intolerable act of impurity, since he wasn't a Levite of the Kohatite branch. (2 Samuel 6:1-7) That's how stern God is with purity, according to the Scriptures. Don't angels sing "Holy, holy, holy are you?" (Revelation 4:8) Well, the WT should heed to their own advice on this key doctrine.

Even if the WT could be on the right side of the theological wars by noticing the need to rescue God's name from obscurity, doing so without being absolutely certain that they were using the original and purest form of the name, would risk them being the object of God's ire.

To insist on using "Jehovah" is actually a disservice to the God the WT purports to worship, and, if I were the God that the Scriptures portray, I'd be very unhappy and offended with them. It's a bit like if my name was JONATHAN and a bunch of people at work would call me JANITOR because it was a "close enough" pronunciation. I wouldn't be amused. I would rather be addressed as "Mister" or "Sir", than be called some corrupted form of my name that, after a while, I would find an intolerable mockery.

Besides, I don't see any advantage in God allowing the true pronunciation of his name to be concealed for millennia. What good would that produce, except to expose God's inability to preserve his own assets?

332

The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

by slimboyfat in

jehovah's witnesses have had to revise their chronology and various doctrinal interpretations due to events and scholarly corrections.

but the one teaching where they have been consistently ahead of the curve is the importance of jehovah's name.. .

i'm going to run through a (necessarily selective) timeline of jw events and scholarly publications that demonstrate the phenomenal success of this teaching in the last days.

EdenOne

Let me throw my two cents into this discussion:

1) It seems fairly established that mainstream Jews in the first century have, for the most part, discontinued the quotidian uttering of the name of god, because of religious superstition. It doesn't mean, though, that the utterance of the name would cause scandal, especially from the mouth of a teacher.

2) It wouldn't be a surprise if the gallilleans on the north used an aramaic or greek variation of the divine name, that would differ from the hebrew.

3) Around the first century, certain radical, fundamentalist sects became hell bent in restoring what they considered to be the "pure" form of judaism. One of those was the ascetic group we know as the Qumran Community of the Essenes - yes those who have produced the manuscripts that we know as the Dead Sea Scrolls.

4) Certain authors, such as Robert Eisenman (see James, The Brother of Jesus) make a good case in establishing a connection between John The Baptizer and the Qumran Community. John was at least influenced by this community, maybe even at some point was a member of it. Jesus started his spiritual journey as a disciple of John.

5) As attested by fragments found among the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Qumran Community appears to have used the divine name in a much higher scale than their contemporary fellow Jews. It is possible that their beliefs aiming at the restoration of a "pure worship" included a renewed reverence for the divine name, "restoring" its honor by using it - especially in liturgy.

6) Being this the case, it isn't hard to understand why Jesus, indirectly influenced by these ideas, would direct his disciples to pray "sanctified be thy name" or say "I have made your name manifested". It is very likely that Jesus actually uttered the divine name often (possibly in its aramaic variation) in his preaching and teaching. It would be considered an eccentricity by the mainstream Jew, but understandable coming from a radical, fundamentalist preacher such as Jesus was. Certainly, it wasn't the utterance of god's name that led to his demise: it wasn't even brought up as an issue during his trial.

7) Let's not forget that Jesus never meant to start a new religion. He advocated a new fashion of Judaism, but he didn't create "christianity". Nor did any of the twelve apostles. They were all Jews, and observed the Torah and the Jewish traditions. In the book of Acts it's clear that James, the leader of the Jerusalem congregation of Jesus' followers, was still a scrupulous observer of the Law - and he enforced it on Paul, even suggesting that the preaching of the self-styled apostle was an apostasy against Moses. (See Acts 21) The earliest followers of Jesus were entirely Jews and didn't see themselves as part of a different religion. They were merely a sect within Judaism. A sect of mostly illiterate people (only exception being perhaps Levi and Judas) who probably uttered the divine name but never put it down in written form.

8) What we have come to know as "Christianity" is essentially a Pauline invention; it is Paul who carved out a new religion loosely based on the teachings of Jesus. But in order to make that new religion palatable to the greek-roman world, he needed to distance it from its Jewish origins - judaism was poorly regarded outside Palestine or outside the jewish communities of the diaspora. That included the suppression of the divine name from the early christian writings, who are mostly penned by Paul, by Paul's disciples, or heavily edited and redacted by them.

9) The destruction of Jerusalem and its temple annihilated the original congregation and offered the dimming Pauline apostasy an opportunity to thrive. Eventually, the pauline flavor of Christ became victorious, and his disciples re-wrote the story of the movement and its gospels to suit their narratives of Jesus, and those are, for the most part, the manuscripts that survived to this day.

10) Once the divine name of the hebrew god was expunged from the "christian scriptures", it was a lot easier to conflate Jesus with God, and thus, for mainstream christianity, the preacher from Gallilee became God, and the path for the trinity was open.

18

Jesus Christ was anti-family

by deegee in

strong family ties & family values did not matter to jesus:.

- a person must hate his or her family and themselves in order to be jesus’ disciple (matthew 10:37; luke 14:26).

- jesus will give a big reward to those who forsake their family, abandon their home, leave their family behind for him.

EdenOne

marked

85

Are you a Christian Who Accepts Evolution?

by cofty in

if you identify as a christian but you have accepted that the diversity of life - including humans - resulted from a process of biological evolution could you add your name please?.

just to be clear i am referring to the fact that our physical lineage could literally be traced back all the way to non-human species.. if you like maybe you could comment on why you see not conflict between evolution and your christian faith.. there is a tendency to conflate evolution with atheism.

it would be good to show that this is not the case..

EdenOne

Intellectually speaking, I wouldn't see a fundamental problem in accepting theistic evolution, although the fundamental question of the origin of life would still remain unanswered - and without that one answered, the debate on the relevance of a creator deity would forever remain open.

What I cannot reconcile (hence my agnosticism) is the compatibility of an all-powerful and all-loving deity with the existence and persistence of evil.

56

Would You Outlaw Jehovah's Witnesses If You Had Your Way?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i still believe in freedom of religion even if i disagree with the beliefsof the religion.

what about you?.

EdenOne

I second what Island Man said and would add that any tax exemptions should be refused to religions who are not fully abiding to the law of the land - that would include those who encourage its members to civil disobedience, non-cooperation with authorities, hate speech and refusing life-saving medical procedures. And those who persist in not abiding to the law shoud have their legal status revoked and be considered like a common for-profit corporation.