Posts by EdenOne

188

A Manual for Creating Atheists by Peter Boghossian

by cofty in

a manual for creating atheists offers the first-ever guide not for talking people into faith--but for talking them out of it.

peter boghossian draws on the tools he has developed and used for more than twenty years as a philosopher and educator to teach how to engage the faithful in conversations that will help them value reason and rationality, cast doubt on their religious beliefs, mistrust their faith, abandon superstition and irrationality, and ultimately embrace reason.

- amazon.... "boghossian has provided an indispensible chart book for all of us who must navigate the rising sea of magical thinking that is inundating america today.

EdenOne

Cofty,

To me, there is merit in educating people to use their mental abilities have a better understanding of the world and the universe around them and therefore live a better life. If that leads people to question the usefulness of a divine entity, it's purpose, and ultimately, the very need for the existence of such entity, so be it. The outcome may lead to atheism, to agnosticism, to apatheism, or to an invigorated sense of theism or spirituallity. However, to set oneself for the goal to destroy the sense of spirituallity, the sense of connection to someone and something greater than ourselves, that is to kill something within us that makes us being uniquely humans. To "kill" God is to kill also part of our humanity.

Eden

188

A Manual for Creating Atheists by Peter Boghossian

by cofty in

a manual for creating atheists offers the first-ever guide not for talking people into faith--but for talking them out of it.

peter boghossian draws on the tools he has developed and used for more than twenty years as a philosopher and educator to teach how to engage the faithful in conversations that will help them value reason and rationality, cast doubt on their religious beliefs, mistrust their faith, abandon superstition and irrationality, and ultimately embrace reason.

- amazon.... "boghossian has provided an indispensible chart book for all of us who must navigate the rising sea of magical thinking that is inundating america today.

EdenOne

Captain,

If that's the outcome that YOU arrive to, you take responsability for it. But you don't seem to be ready to accept that there may be different outcomes for different people, because you already have a pre-disposition to believe in it in a certain way. You say that spiritual cannot be tested, therefore cannot be true. I disagree.

Consider for a moment the speed of light in vaccuum. Since 1676, with Ole Romer, that it was demonstrated that light travelled at a finite speed. But exactly how fast? Now, imagine that I lived in 1676 and claimed that light travelled at 299,792,458 metres per second. With the technology of that era this could not be demonstrated. Therefore, as per your reasoning, since it could not be tested, therefore it could not be true. It was only in 1975 that this could be demonstrated. However, back in 1676, I would be right, and you would be wrong! Just because the 'spiritual cannot be tested', this doesn't mean it cannot be true.

It may never be tested, or it may be tested sometime in the future. But that lack of testing doesn't render it impossible, only less probable, as per what we know today.

Eden

188

A Manual for Creating Atheists by Peter Boghossian

by cofty in

a manual for creating atheists offers the first-ever guide not for talking people into faith--but for talking them out of it.

peter boghossian draws on the tools he has developed and used for more than twenty years as a philosopher and educator to teach how to engage the faithful in conversations that will help them value reason and rationality, cast doubt on their religious beliefs, mistrust their faith, abandon superstition and irrationality, and ultimately embrace reason.

- amazon.... "boghossian has provided an indispensible chart book for all of us who must navigate the rising sea of magical thinking that is inundating america today.

EdenOne

Jgnat, thank you for the article, btw. Interesting reading so far.

Eden

188

A Manual for Creating Atheists by Peter Boghossian

by cofty in

a manual for creating atheists offers the first-ever guide not for talking people into faith--but for talking them out of it.

peter boghossian draws on the tools he has developed and used for more than twenty years as a philosopher and educator to teach how to engage the faithful in conversations that will help them value reason and rationality, cast doubt on their religious beliefs, mistrust their faith, abandon superstition and irrationality, and ultimately embrace reason.

- amazon.... "boghossian has provided an indispensible chart book for all of us who must navigate the rising sea of magical thinking that is inundating america today.

EdenOne

Cofty,

To get back on this thread's focus as you requested, I would say "Why not?". After all, haven't religious people, notably amongst them, the Jehovah's Witnesses, been attempting to proselityze others since our inception? What moral authority would I have if I would criticize an atheist for attempting to proselytize a believer? My criticism goes to those who criticize the Witnesses for preaching religion all the while themselves are caught doing exactly the same thing for science (in this case, atheism wrapped in science) on every possible ocasion. That's all.

Is there merit in the endeavour? If the goal is to cause a believer to lose faith in the divine being (in abstract, whomever that person considers to be his/hers divinity, Jehovah or someone else), I think that in itself it has no merit whatsoever. If, on the other hand, the goal is to help someone to use reason to reach a more balanced view of life and the cosmos, and better separate what is 'material' from what is 'spiritual', then I concede that there might be some merit to it.

However, I would add, given the title of the book, its purpose is very clear.

Eden

188

A Manual for Creating Atheists by Peter Boghossian

by cofty in

a manual for creating atheists offers the first-ever guide not for talking people into faith--but for talking them out of it.

peter boghossian draws on the tools he has developed and used for more than twenty years as a philosopher and educator to teach how to engage the faithful in conversations that will help them value reason and rationality, cast doubt on their religious beliefs, mistrust their faith, abandon superstition and irrationality, and ultimately embrace reason.

- amazon.... "boghossian has provided an indispensible chart book for all of us who must navigate the rising sea of magical thinking that is inundating america today.

EdenOne

Jgnat

I'm not aware that Steven Pinker ever linked the "ewww factor" with incest; if he did, I would stand corrected. Rather, he focused on human reactions to physiological items (feces, urine, blood, pus ... ) and rot. Interestingly, other studies concluded that children of up to 3 years old don't seem to be "hardwired" at all in this manner. Only when they start to clearly understand what their parents tell them to eat/don't eat or touch/don't touch, is when they develop the "ewww factor" and some other religious-based cognitions, such as "kosher food". Thus, even the "ewww factor", as universal as it may be, appears to have both cultural and biological causes, likely a combination of both, but where the cultural wheighs in more.

Eden

188

A Manual for Creating Atheists by Peter Boghossian

by cofty in

a manual for creating atheists offers the first-ever guide not for talking people into faith--but for talking them out of it.

peter boghossian draws on the tools he has developed and used for more than twenty years as a philosopher and educator to teach how to engage the faithful in conversations that will help them value reason and rationality, cast doubt on their religious beliefs, mistrust their faith, abandon superstition and irrationality, and ultimately embrace reason.

- amazon.... "boghossian has provided an indispensible chart book for all of us who must navigate the rising sea of magical thinking that is inundating america today.

EdenOne

The answer to that is usually seen on what the perceived consequences are for the ones who break the morals. In most cases, the punishment for the transgression is attributed to the divinity (whatever that may be in each case), or to people acting on behalf of the divinity. So, also in this example, an ethic value ties in closely with religion.

Eden

188

A Manual for Creating Atheists by Peter Boghossian

by cofty in

a manual for creating atheists offers the first-ever guide not for talking people into faith--but for talking them out of it.

peter boghossian draws on the tools he has developed and used for more than twenty years as a philosopher and educator to teach how to engage the faithful in conversations that will help them value reason and rationality, cast doubt on their religious beliefs, mistrust their faith, abandon superstition and irrationality, and ultimately embrace reason.

- amazon.... "boghossian has provided an indispensible chart book for all of us who must navigate the rising sea of magical thinking that is inundating america today.

EdenOne

(Sorry, work caught me)

I don't understand the relevance of the issue about the [so called] universallity of the social rejection of incest. Would you care to elaborate further on your question?

Eden

164

Did Cedars manipulate Lee into having a thread closed?

by cedars in

i will happily answer this question if there can be some guarantees this thread won't be deleted..

EdenOne

Simon, I wasn't quick enough to take a photograph of it.

But, for at least a minute, at the bottom of the thread, I had this message saying: Close.. then two buttons, Yes, No.

What was this?

Eden

188

A Manual for Creating Atheists by Peter Boghossian

by cofty in

a manual for creating atheists offers the first-ever guide not for talking people into faith--but for talking them out of it.

peter boghossian draws on the tools he has developed and used for more than twenty years as a philosopher and educator to teach how to engage the faithful in conversations that will help them value reason and rationality, cast doubt on their religious beliefs, mistrust their faith, abandon superstition and irrationality, and ultimately embrace reason.

- amazon.... "boghossian has provided an indispensible chart book for all of us who must navigate the rising sea of magical thinking that is inundating america today.

EdenOne

thats what you claim and what I hope to see some proof of

Do you have a better explanation for that? Let's hear it. You should benefit from reading some books on the subject of Anthropology. I recommend Émile Durkheim.

okay now i am confused. did our brains evolve in the meantime

Not necessarily. We simply accomulated more knowledge of the world around us and replaced magic explanations for empirical observations. When the epistemological leap from religiousness to rationalism was given, so were the ethical values disconnected from religious systems of belief.

Eden

188

A Manual for Creating Atheists by Peter Boghossian

by cofty in

a manual for creating atheists offers the first-ever guide not for talking people into faith--but for talking them out of it.

peter boghossian draws on the tools he has developed and used for more than twenty years as a philosopher and educator to teach how to engage the faithful in conversations that will help them value reason and rationality, cast doubt on their religious beliefs, mistrust their faith, abandon superstition and irrationality, and ultimately embrace reason.

- amazon.... "boghossian has provided an indispensible chart book for all of us who must navigate the rising sea of magical thinking that is inundating america today.

EdenOne

My name is Bill Blyth, what's yours?

Nice to meet you. I'm Eden. That's all you deserve need to know.

Btw, nice punch below the waist line.

Eden