No, I mean the notion that 'apostasy' is as dangerous as spiritism, both being Satan's tools - as per WTS ideology.
Eden
EdenOne
JoinedPosts by EdenOne
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35
Are JW's scared of visiting apostate websites?
by yadda yadda 2 ini believe they are.
i think it's their biggest fear besides dying at armageddon.. there's a saying that anyone who reads ray franz's books is never the same again.
i think many jw's secretly know that there is information out there that would almost certaintly seriously damage their truth in their religion, and they are terrified of it.. they would rather keep their heads firmly stuck in the sand than even take a peek at critical information that might begin a slippery slope leading to the collapse of their unique worldview.. jw doing their version of the islam prayer:.
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188
A Manual for Creating Atheists by Peter Boghossian
by cofty ina manual for creating atheists offers the first-ever guide not for talking people into faith--but for talking them out of it.
peter boghossian draws on the tools he has developed and used for more than twenty years as a philosopher and educator to teach how to engage the faithful in conversations that will help them value reason and rationality, cast doubt on their religious beliefs, mistrust their faith, abandon superstition and irrationality, and ultimately embrace reason.
- amazon.... "boghossian has provided an indispensible chart book for all of us who must navigate the rising sea of magical thinking that is inundating america today.
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EdenOne
Eden scientist do explain this, if people don't read what the scientist say, because "it aint written in the bible", is that our fault?
To a point, yes. Scientists don't stress out that point enough, usually because they are already biased about the beliefs of theists. Popular science for the masses also pays a disservice in this regard. Makes reasonable people suspect that there is an atheistic agenda behind evolutionism. And naturally, religious organizations are quick to fuel that notion too. And mediatic superstar scientists like Dawkins, who are great communicators, when they embrace an anti-theistic cruzade, only cause common folk to imagine that every scientist is like him, and that science is all about killing God.
Eden
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35
Are JW's scared of visiting apostate websites?
by yadda yadda 2 ini believe they are.
i think it's their biggest fear besides dying at armageddon.. there's a saying that anyone who reads ray franz's books is never the same again.
i think many jw's secretly know that there is information out there that would almost certaintly seriously damage their truth in their religion, and they are terrified of it.. they would rather keep their heads firmly stuck in the sand than even take a peek at critical information that might begin a slippery slope leading to the collapse of their unique worldview.. jw doing their version of the islam prayer:.
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EdenOne
Yadda,
Your analysis is quite fair. Many JW's think that talking with 'apostates' or viewing 'apostate material' will somehow put them under some sort of a satanic wicked spell that eventually stumble them and knock their faith out of them. I know that for some JW's, apostasy = spiritism. And truth be told, that is the outcome for many who dare to disobey the WTS policy. However, if one challenges itself to do so, and his faith can survive the test, usually he comes out of it more solid about his theism, albeit undoubtly more sober about his religion.
Eden
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188
A Manual for Creating Atheists by Peter Boghossian
by cofty ina manual for creating atheists offers the first-ever guide not for talking people into faith--but for talking them out of it.
peter boghossian draws on the tools he has developed and used for more than twenty years as a philosopher and educator to teach how to engage the faithful in conversations that will help them value reason and rationality, cast doubt on their religious beliefs, mistrust their faith, abandon superstition and irrationality, and ultimately embrace reason.
- amazon.... "boghossian has provided an indispensible chart book for all of us who must navigate the rising sea of magical thinking that is inundating america today.
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EdenOne
around two thirds of Americans beleive in a young earth because they value superstition before science.
If scientists could explain to those people that accepting evolution doesn't imply accepting the inexistence of God, perhaps many of those would be willing to revise their belief. I know that because I've been there. The problem is the "this or that" choice that is usually served to the masses. Are you surprised that many chose to go with superstition? Because science fails to explain the inner experiences of faith that many people have. That massive black hole scares people, and throws them into a trench, where they refuse to investigate any further evidence. Besides, science hasn't got the best track record when it comes to ethics either, so why go with the monster you don't know? Better stick with the one you are familiar with.
Eden
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188
A Manual for Creating Atheists by Peter Boghossian
by cofty ina manual for creating atheists offers the first-ever guide not for talking people into faith--but for talking them out of it.
peter boghossian draws on the tools he has developed and used for more than twenty years as a philosopher and educator to teach how to engage the faithful in conversations that will help them value reason and rationality, cast doubt on their religious beliefs, mistrust their faith, abandon superstition and irrationality, and ultimately embrace reason.
- amazon.... "boghossian has provided an indispensible chart book for all of us who must navigate the rising sea of magical thinking that is inundating america today.
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EdenOne
Coftly, maybe you don't realize it, but often you attack bad ideas by implying that the person entertaining them has some kind of defective brain - otherwise, how could a "normal" person entertain such ideas? That's not only bad psychology, makes you come across as an intolerant person.
Eden
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188
A Manual for Creating Atheists by Peter Boghossian
by cofty ina manual for creating atheists offers the first-ever guide not for talking people into faith--but for talking them out of it.
peter boghossian draws on the tools he has developed and used for more than twenty years as a philosopher and educator to teach how to engage the faithful in conversations that will help them value reason and rationality, cast doubt on their religious beliefs, mistrust their faith, abandon superstition and irrationality, and ultimately embrace reason.
- amazon.... "boghossian has provided an indispensible chart book for all of us who must navigate the rising sea of magical thinking that is inundating america today.
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EdenOne
QCmbr: We need atheism to free people
Since when theism has stopped people from learning about the universe and how things really work, without resorting to magical explanations? Per your assertion, there would be no theist scientists. Do you think science started with atheism? That's the kind of dogmatic statement that reveals the worst kind of intolerance, and you confuse theism with religion.
The true breaktrhough was when science and theism realized they were about two different fields of knowledge.
Eden
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188
A Manual for Creating Atheists by Peter Boghossian
by cofty ina manual for creating atheists offers the first-ever guide not for talking people into faith--but for talking them out of it.
peter boghossian draws on the tools he has developed and used for more than twenty years as a philosopher and educator to teach how to engage the faithful in conversations that will help them value reason and rationality, cast doubt on their religious beliefs, mistrust their faith, abandon superstition and irrationality, and ultimately embrace reason.
- amazon.... "boghossian has provided an indispensible chart book for all of us who must navigate the rising sea of magical thinking that is inundating america today.
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EdenOne
Cofty, naturally this is an arena where people exchange thoughts and challenge each other. But there are ways and ways to engage into that. I'm glad that in your real life you don't thrive on cofteism, otherwise I don't know how you would even have a social life. And this isn't about hurt feelings, it's about tolerance and being civil to each other, that's all. If I was in the UK I would be delighted to invite you and/or cantleave for lunch.
[Edit: One at a time ]
Eden
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188
A Manual for Creating Atheists by Peter Boghossian
by cofty ina manual for creating atheists offers the first-ever guide not for talking people into faith--but for talking them out of it.
peter boghossian draws on the tools he has developed and used for more than twenty years as a philosopher and educator to teach how to engage the faithful in conversations that will help them value reason and rationality, cast doubt on their religious beliefs, mistrust their faith, abandon superstition and irrationality, and ultimately embrace reason.
- amazon.... "boghossian has provided an indispensible chart book for all of us who must navigate the rising sea of magical thinking that is inundating america today.
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EdenOne
The one thing that stuns me about some atheists is the intellectual arrogance that some blatantly display when they are near theists. It's as if they can't help themselves than to over and over attempt to demonstrate the superiority of their assertions by demeaning the faith of the believers rather than simply stand by the intrinsic validity of their ideas. They act as intellectual bullies with an evident measure of egotism and a skewed, boastful sense of grandiose about the fundaments of their cognitions.
I'm sure that my acessment above will be met with prompt reactions that will match my description above, which will end up proving my point.
And you know what's more interesting? Due to my work, I've had the privilege to be around some very brilliant scientists. I won't mention names, but some of them are in the forefront of biomolecular and microbiology research, they run research labs, and publish papers in the most respected scientific publications in the world. When the topic is theism, although they are skeptic about the subject, they are at the same time RESPECTFUL of the beliefs of theists, and they don't talk down condescendingly their theist interlocutors nor attempt to dislodge their beliefs by intellectually bullying them. That's how it should be.
The problem is when some start vieweing the likes of Dawkins as their super-hero, taking on a mission to defeat the evil dark hordes of theists. It just gets to their heads, and they stop acting like reasonable human beings and enter "kill-crush" mode, having the argumentative finesse of a nazi panzer division. This isn't helpful.
It's true that many theists are idiotic, but rationalism doesn't prevent anyone from being an ass either.
Eden
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187
The reason behind why the ex-JW community can never match Jehovah's Witnesses' success.
by Stand for Pure Worship inan average of five kingdom halls being constructed daily, almost 8 million brothers and sisters, dissemination of bible literature in 595 languages, 111,795 congregations worldwide, distribution of 179 million bibles available in 116 languages, 239 countries where jehovah's witnesses have a presence, etc.. need i go on?.
on the other hand........... crisis of conscience, freeminds, the awaa, jw.net, ummmmmm........hmmm........idk six screens or something?
not exactly working out for you guys.
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EdenOne
Shot in the foot, SFTW.
Eden
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164
Did Cedars manipulate Lee into having a thread closed?
by cedars ini will happily answer this question if there can be some guarantees this thread won't be deleted..
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EdenOne
You know, these bickering threads can be very exhausting. Months ago, after one particular intense thread bickering with another poster, I started wondering why on earth was I here. Why would I come here to be mocked about my beliefs, to feel like I had to once again stand up and defend myself, as if being a JW isn't being the subject of enough mockery as it is already. When coming here one is seeking a modicum of freedom to investigate, learn, speak up, vent, share experiences, find compassion, shelter, whatever. One shouldn't come here and be nauseated, irritated, tense, inflamed, insulted and insulting. So I took a break; I was getting really depressed and thank God my business and my work started to claim my attention and I got completely absorved by it. I even neglected my own website, as I was so sick of even talking about anything remotely spiritual or religious.
I hope we all could understand just how worn out some of us are. We don't want to come here and be the peanut gallery watching others cut throats and engaging in unreasonably long threads of bickering, insulting, and big ego clashes. I sometimes fall into that trap also, and I apologize for sometimes also get carried away. But believe me, it exhausts me. Sometimes I think how much better a KH is by comparison, at least there's a modicum of peace and amicable environment there, even if the doctrine is very questionable and our leadership isn't what it pretends to be.
I came back to JWN because I always hope to learn something, share something, FEEL something. No day is like the next day, but truth is, sometimes I come out of here feeling like I've just been caught on a shooting spree and my soul is full of holes. And it's a pitty, really.
Ok, end of rant, my apologies.
Eden