EdenOne

Joined

• started 155 topics
• posted 2,912 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by EdenOne

• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  zound,

  Do you deny that competition, selfishness and mercilessness are predominant features in nature?

  How can you expect with a simple crossline over a word ascribe them to God?

  Eden
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  It's the hope that he offers that makes Him worthy of awe

  Wouldn't this by number 15?

  15. Suffering will be unimportant compared to eternal rewards

  No, because involuntary suffering cannot be unimportant, no matter how great the "eternal reward" is.

  Eden
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  zound

  Just go down to a local childrens hospital then come back here and tell us all about how god is completely moral by not intervening.

  I don't need to go that far to see that kind of scene. The non-interventionism of God doesn't make him moral; doesn't make him amoral either. It's the hope that he offers that makes Him worthy of awe; It's the fact that we, humans, can show empathy, compassion, selfless interest in others, something we hardly see in nature, where the norm is competition, selfishness and mercilesness, that reveals that God operates within and through each one of us, even those who don't believe He exists.

  Eden
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Cofty:

  "Sorry to all the hundreds of thousands of victims of the tsunami. Don't take it personally, you were collateral damage.

  By the way I wasn't to blame, it's not like I invented earthquakes - oh shit.

  Be assured that you did not die in vain, your broken corpses triggered some feelings of altruism in some prosperous western protestants so that was nice.

  Well anyway see you in the afterlife. You were all born-again christians weren't you? No! Oh well your pain is just beginning" God

  Appeal to ridicule fallacy.

  Eden
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Adamah:

  So let's see: God allows Jesus to suffer and be tortured to death at the hands of men, since God really loved Jesus, his firstborn Son, and allowing it to happen shows us how much God loves the rest of us, where Jesus' death was required by God in order to repay a debt owed to God due to Adam's fruit-eating binge?

  The above quote shows me how much you're still in JW land. Jesus' death was a symbol of redemption, something that we can look up to and put faith in it. If God didn't hold back from us his very own son, he will also surely extend us salvation. There's no "adamic debt to repay to God". There is simply a sonship towards God that each one individually must regain. Besides, Jesus volunteered for that mission, didn't he?

  Or are non-believers such ethical giants in comparison to believers that it only makes it appear that way?

  Now, now....are we having delusions of megalomany now?

  Eden
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Cofty, i disagree that my observation falls under #8 or #15

  8. It wasn't god's time to act

  Response - Is there a better time for a loving god to act than before the tsunami kills a quarter of a million innocent people?

  I don't say God will EVER act to stop a natural disaster. It's not about HIS timing nor OUR timing. He just decided that he won't, and let living beings deal with it.

  15. Suffering will be unimportant compared to eternal rewards

  Response - This is ethically repugnant. It is an extreme example of "the end justifies the means" defense, so beloved of tyrants.

  Suffering does matter to God, and all the more the suffering of those he loves. The fact that God doesn't intervein to stop natural calamities has nothing to do with a relative importance of present life suffering versus the "eternal reward". Yes, it is of relative importance, but that doesn't implicate that God is causing it to teach us a lesson or to better us as people. God offers hope which helps us a great deal to cope with the horrific outcomes of some natural disasters. that's enough for me to have a sense of gratitude towards Him. And, as a colateral result of natural disasters, sometimes natural calamities bring out the best in people, which is a testimony to the goodness and altruism that we usually don't see much of it in nature, and is a reflexion of the divine spark within each one of us.

  Eden
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  I'm late for the discusssion, but I'll throw the opinion I've come to:

  There's no "evil" in nature, for "evil" implies an intention, a design. There's no such thing in the natural world, an intent to hurt, to cause pain and destruction. Nature is what it is, there is pain, there is fear, there is anxiety, bad things happen, disasters happen, living beings get caught in it. Although irrational beings such as mammals can certainly feel pain and fear and stress, they don't question "why am i suffering?", or "is there a purpose to my troubles?". Only an intelligent being like man with the capacity to think in abstract terms, would question himself about that. Death, ageing, illness, disaster, always have been present in nature. God didn't "create" them, they are the random part of the game of life.

  When mankind developed enough intelligence to become interesting to God, He decided to elevate this species to a higher status, that of "sons of God". hence, he created the first "homo Sapiens" couple gifted with that ability, Adam and Eve, who would eventually propagate such gift to all mankind. Thus, the life that God intended for man, once his earthly life was naturally over, was to live the true life in the spiritual realm as one of the spiritual sons of God. When that purpose was messed up by the disobedience of that couple who lost their sonship status with God, He has found an alternative means to still accomplish his purpose for his earthly children. In the meantime, God stepped aside, and refreined from interfering with the free will of man. He has put in motion his plan for reconciling mankind with himself, through faith in Jesus.

  I don't know if my view deserves a number in Cofty's list, but the way I see it, God has nothing to do with natural disasters; they aren't a "design flaw", because God never intended for material life to be "perfect", in the sense of being optimal, eternally enjoyable, eternally good. It happens to people what happens to every other living being in nature: they are born, they grow up, they mature, they reproduce, they age and then die. Accidents happen all the time, in every place, and God doesn't cause them, doesn't stop them, no one is to blame for them. Life happens. Death happens. What God ensures is salvation for those who put faith in his salvation through Christ. The true life will be attained in the spiritual realm. Until then, we can make the most of the time we live on the face of the earth to learn about love and compassion, enjoy this life and its gifts the best we can, and prepare ourselves for what comes in the realm where natural disasters don't happen - the heavenly realm.

  It's not that God doesn't care. He does. He simply decides not to intervein and let life happens and people handle its challenges. He gives hope to those intelligeng enough to grasp it and those faithful enough to want it.

  Eden
• 
  12

  NEW ARTICLE - "REJOICE IN THE HOPE! - The Unifying Hope For All Christians"

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hello everyone.. just wanted to let you know that i've published a new article on the website of the christian fraternity of god's people, www.cfjp.weebly.com.

  the article is called: "rejoice in the hope!

  - the unifying hope for all christians".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Another heads-up.

  I've added a couple of paragraphs on part 3 (refuting the connection between sin and illness); Part 8 (added argument); Part 11 (new paragraph about symbology of baptism); Part 12 (new paragraph on not judging other christians); 14, 15, 16 (new arguments). Other than that, I corrected a few numbers on the chapter/verse of some texts that were off.

  Eden
• 
  93

  Appointed by holy spirit

  by Ben57 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been reading the posts on who is and or had been an elder.

  it amazes me at what many have said.

  perhaps i have misunderstood what they were saying.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  The way I see it, the Organization doesn't teach that Elders are appointed by means of a supernatural occurrence of the Holy Spirit. BUT ... is very happy to let the Witnesses BELIEVE that such is the case, because is highly convenient to establish a chain of command that goes straight up to God. Hence, the "forked tongue" on this subject that the Brooklyn writers have used countless times. They could - and should - have been crystal clear about the entire process, but they choose to be nebulous. Therefore, if such myth persists among the Jehovah's Witnesses, it's entirely the Governing Body's fault.

  Eden
• 
  73

  What will the JW religion be like in 2015?

  by JimmyPage in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  over 100 years into the reign of christ and six more years of damage from the internet.

  .

  what do you envision?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  I was dumbfunded to read Mary's post of 4 years ago. Except for the "store own blood" item, she was spot on. And, even regarding the "store own blood", I think that is bound to change anytime soon, as a matter of "conscience" - since its only scriptural basis is a demand of Moses' Law.

  Eden