Posts by EdenOne

114

Why do religious people make claims and then refuse to back them up?

by Viviane in

several times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.

i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.

indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.

EdenOne

This:

I think that a lot of JWs feel that the claims can be backed up, but that they personally are unable to back them up.They probably think that a GB member or a Bethelite or a CO or a super elder could back them up. JWs of this particular type think that JW higher-ups are so much smarter than they are that they just accept what these higher-ups say and assume the higher-ups can back up what they say.

and this:

As to why they won't admit they don't know... well, I don't know. I think it's a combination of stupidity, stubbornness, and pride. Also, I think it's fear. They might have some nagging doubts that they suppress. They are terrified of the implications of these doubts, so they keep them locked away. To admit they don't know might, to them, be sort of like letting their doubts out.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Once, a simpleton Elder told me: "Brother Eden, you're too intelligent for your own good. Don't let your intelectuality derail you from the truth. The GB has done all the research for us, there's no need for you to research anything else. They've prepared all the pap ready for us, you just can't better it or find out things they haven't figured out yet".

Eden

66

BART EHRMAN answers my question

by TerryWalstrom in

as a member on bart ehrman's blog, i am able to ask him direct questions.is jehovah in the bible?.

question:.

how firmly grounded in reality is the claim of jehovahs witnesses that the divine name (jehovah) belongs in the new testament?.

EdenOne

To Perry:

Wash your potty mouth and cleanse your brain before you make a pathetic personal attack on Dr. Ehrman's integrity. Just because he was once an evangelical Christian who realized the tragic errors of the Bible, and who could not reconcile anymore the problem of evil with the existence of the Christian God, doesn't make him a dishonest person. Dishonest are those who refuse to acknowledge the super abundant evidence that the Bible is nothing more than a collection of texts created by humans, speaking about a deity they invented to embody their wishes, aspirations and acrimonies. At least Dr. Ehrman was intellectually honest to acknowledge as much as evidence presented itself to him during his academic research. On the other hand, Christian pseudo-scientists refuse evidence, resort to magical thinking and go to absurd lengths to justify what's written in the Bible as factual history and the greatest moral guide ever produced. THAT is where the bold-faced dishonesty lies, in face of all evidence. And you, Perry, are the embodiment of such a blind and coward attitude.

Eden

74

Who leaves first, the husband or wife?

by snugglebunny in

jw
friends

when it comes to a simple matter of no longer believing the teachings of jw's, it appears to me that it's more common for the husband to make the first move to leave the religion.

EdenOne

In our case, I woke up first but for the sake of family, I stayed. I noticed my son had issues with the JW's teachings and reassured that I would never turn his back on him should he one day decide to take a different path in his life. So, when he was 16 he informed us that he no longer wanted to be a JW. Few months later, my wife got me in trouble with the Elders for an essay I wrote. Despite the "apostate" label I carried from then on (that eventually led to a JC later), and my wife knowing my thoughts about the Org and the "truth", I persisted in staying for the sake of family and friends we had in. Then, it was my wife's turn to wake up after a night of insomnia led her to go online and be shocked with the paedophilia problem within the Org. Next morning, she told me she would never go back to the meetings. Henceforth, we never went back. This decision from my wife was blamed on me ever since, and this unleashed a JC for apostasy. I was able to successfully defend myself and I was only "reproved". So:

1) Husband first gets mentally out but stays in for the sake of the family.

2) Son gets mentally out, and then takes a stand to leave.

3) Wife suddenly gets mentally out and takes a stand to leave.

4) Having accomplished the deliverance of his family from the cult, the father also takes a stand to leave.

Eden

5

NATIONAL DEFENSE DAY - Cause for disfellowshipping?

by EdenOne in

my son will soon be summoned to attend the "national defense day".. in my country, military service has become voluntary, but all young men and women around the age of 18/19 must attend a one-day session in a military recruitment centre, where the military will basically run a sales session trying to get them interested in the military career.

they will watch the military routine, a parade to salute the flag (not sure they will have to participate in saluting the flag), sing the national anthem (not sure it's mandatory to join in the singing), touch a few guns, learn about the current threats to national security, learn about the missions and branches of the military, etc.

it's a one-day thing, but i know most active jw's ask to be excused from this event on grounds of conscientious objection.. although my son has no interest in the military career, he made up his mind to attend when summoned.

EdenOne

I'm not from Chile, Giordano ;) But if the 'Chilean flag in Kingdom Hall' affair serves as an example, then one can argue that that attending the National Defense Day here follows the same criteria, i.e, it's demanded by "Caesar".

Eden

5

NATIONAL DEFENSE DAY - Cause for disfellowshipping?

by EdenOne in

my son will soon be summoned to attend the "national defense day".. in my country, military service has become voluntary, but all young men and women around the age of 18/19 must attend a one-day session in a military recruitment centre, where the military will basically run a sales session trying to get them interested in the military career.

they will watch the military routine, a parade to salute the flag (not sure they will have to participate in saluting the flag), sing the national anthem (not sure it's mandatory to join in the singing), touch a few guns, learn about the current threats to national security, learn about the missions and branches of the military, etc.

it's a one-day thing, but i know most active jw's ask to be excused from this event on grounds of conscientious objection.. although my son has no interest in the military career, he made up his mind to attend when summoned.

EdenOne

I would argue with the letter that the HQ sent in response to inquiries regarding the Chilean flag in Kingdom Halls, that we must comply with "Ceaser's laws", since it's compulsory. I don't see a difference in the spirit in this case. But as we know, many Elders aren't known for being reasonable people, and, quite frankly, a couple of Elders in my congregation seem all too eager to disfellowship ME and will use any excuse to get to ME, even if that means using my son for that purpose.

Eden

5

NATIONAL DEFENSE DAY - Cause for disfellowshipping?

by EdenOne in

my son will soon be summoned to attend the "national defense day".. in my country, military service has become voluntary, but all young men and women around the age of 18/19 must attend a one-day session in a military recruitment centre, where the military will basically run a sales session trying to get them interested in the military career.

they will watch the military routine, a parade to salute the flag (not sure they will have to participate in saluting the flag), sing the national anthem (not sure it's mandatory to join in the singing), touch a few guns, learn about the current threats to national security, learn about the missions and branches of the military, etc.

it's a one-day thing, but i know most active jw's ask to be excused from this event on grounds of conscientious objection.. although my son has no interest in the military career, he made up his mind to attend when summoned.

EdenOne

My son will soon be summoned to attend the "National Defense Day".

In my country, military service has become voluntary, but all young men and women around the age of 18/19 must attend a one-day session in a military recruitment centre, where the military will basically run a sales session trying to get them interested in the military career. They will watch the military routine, a parade to salute the flag (not sure they will have to participate in saluting the flag), sing the National Anthem (not sure it's mandatory to join in the singing), touch a few guns, learn about the current threats to national security, learn about the missions and branches of the military, etc. It's a one-day thing, but I know most active JW's ask to be excused from this event on grounds of conscientious objection.

Although my son has no interest in the military career, he made up his mind to attend when summoned. I suspect that the congregation elders will use this as an excuse to hit on my family again. I would like to ask those still "in" if this constitutes cause for disfellowshipping these days. Thanks.

Eden

14

"Why I don't like people coming to my door, selling religion"

by Captain Schmideo2 in

jw
friends

this is from a blog, "news from me" that i read fairly regularly.

mark evanier is, among other things, a comic book writer (co-writer for "groo-the wanderer), a television writer, a great raconteur, and was a close person friend of jack kirby, one of the world's greatest comic book artists.he got an email from a jw trying to explain why they come to his door.evanier's answer is well thought out, and should explain to even the densest j-dub why people really don't like being bothered.

maybe his correspondent will take it to heart, but probably not.

EdenOne

Brilliant - love the ideas in this email.

Eden

26

QUESTIONING THE OBVIOUS or deconstructing Jehovah's Witnesses

by TerryWalstrom in

what is the most obvious thing you can think of about jehovah's witnesses from the standpoint of worldwide recognition?.

wouldn't it be 2 primary things: the name jehovah and secondly, the public testimony or witnessing?.

let's begin deconstructing those two things.. first, why would christians refer to themselves by any other name than christian?.

EdenOne

marked

17

Watchtower's deception regarding blood transfusions

by Rufus T. Firefly in

you also ask why one can be dis-fellowshipped for taking a blood transfusion but not for taking blood fractions.

while both may affect the life of an individual, the expression "life-sustaining" in connection with blood transfusions is synonymous with the idea of taking in food for nourishment.

in this regard both whole blood and major components of it carry nutrients, oxygen, and other nourishment to the body.

EdenOne

30

May KM Highlight 1/Cong baptized

by Gayle in

jw
friends

at 2014 conventions (regional?

) 14,039 baptized.

outstanding for 13,871 congs!

EdenOne

As far as I can remember the "40.000" DF'd or DA'd was a world-wide figure, not just US. But it's a very old one.

Eden