EdenOne

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Posts by EdenOne

• 
  284

  I'm an ABSENTHEIST. Are you also?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it just dawned on me.

  the existence of god can't be proved, neither is there evidence of god's inexistence.

  so, i'm neither theist neither atheist.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Sometimes enough is enough, Phizzy.

  Eden
• 
  284

  I'm an ABSENTHEIST. Are you also?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it just dawned on me.

  the existence of god can't be proved, neither is there evidence of god's inexistence.

  so, i'm neither theist neither atheist.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Cofty

  You are pretending that whether or not god exists is an open question. It isn't. Every god who has ever been invented so far does not exist.

  Well, here's the kind of claim that only a hard atheist would make. If you were truly a skeptical, you would leave the question open, albeit you might lean towards the non-existance of deities. But at least come out and show your true face. You're a hard atheist, agressive, a dogmatic bully, evangelizer and proselitizer. You're not interested in an open-ended discussion, you're interested in winning debates so you can gloat in front of your mirror. People like you give a bad name to skepticism and give cold feet to theists who are tempted to give a fair chance at evidence to speak on behalf of reality concerning the existence of a deity or deities. You embody everything that's wrong with hard atheism. Theists don't need "tough love" from rationalism, they don't need the emotional repulse that the likes of you cause on those who are giving timid steps from the dark claws of organized religion into a lighter side of life. Honestly, you are very tiring whenever you enter any discussion that involves theism, because you hijack each and every such thread and make it a pulpit for your brand of skepticism. It's OK, we get it already. You have a big opinion. Let others have theirs. I truly like what you have to say in other threads about other subjects, you bring important things for discussion. But in this particular subject, you're just becoming plain annoying. The only discussion that one can have with you is that where you win. Is that the best you can do? Really?
• 
  284

  I'm an ABSENTHEIST. Are you also?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it just dawned on me.

  the existence of god can't be proved, neither is there evidence of god's inexistence.

  so, i'm neither theist neither atheist.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Jonathan Drake,

  Nope. What Webster's says is that "non existant" is but one among several possible synonyms for "absent". I used this example to counter Cofty's silly assertion that "absence" pressuposes "existence". Of course it doesn't. What is unavoidable about "absence" is that means "not present", "faillure to be present".

  Eden
• 
  284

  I'm an ABSENTHEIST. Are you also?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it just dawned on me.

  the existence of god can't be proved, neither is there evidence of god's inexistence.

  so, i'm neither theist neither atheist.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Galaxie, of course that's an extreme scenario, but it's the most honest scenario. But note what I said - based on the notion that God is absent, each one is entirely free to do as they wish with their lives, from chosing to live for a deity that hasn't been able to come forth and prove its existence, to not giving a damn if God exists or not, to live a live entirely free from any fear from a supernatural being. nothing unlike people do already, really, don't you agree?

  Eden
• 
  284

  I'm an ABSENTHEIST. Are you also?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it just dawned on me.

  the existence of god can't be proved, neither is there evidence of god's inexistence.

  so, i'm neither theist neither atheist.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Jonathan Drake:

  What we are all pretty much saying here is that God is absent from the universe.

  That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that God is absent, (not present), in the observable universe that we know so far. It may be entirely absent from the whole universe, and in that case it can be said that he's non-existent. But only when we have scanned the whole universe without finding trace or evidence of it. Until then, we can only note his absence. Then it's up for grabs what do do with that information.

  Eden
  
  
• 
  284

  I'm an ABSENTHEIST. Are you also?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it just dawned on me.

  the existence of god can't be proved, neither is there evidence of god's inexistence.

  so, i'm neither theist neither atheist.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  But that is precisely the pitfall I intend to avoid: to make any kind of statement regarding the existence or non-existence of a deity, because it ignites a debate where both sides will say: "Because you can't prove A, then B", which, in both cases, is a logical fallacy.

  Eden
• 
  284

  I'm an ABSENTHEIST. Are you also?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it just dawned on me.

  the existence of god can't be proved, neither is there evidence of god's inexistence.

  so, i'm neither theist neither atheist.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Galaxie,

  the point is that I don't want to make any assumptions regarding the existence or non-existence of God. I simply want to claim the only thing that merits empirical evidence status: that God isn't present. It's a skeptical claim in nature, because it discards the so-called "proof" offered by theists, but doesn't make any claims about the inexistence of God that would come under attack because there's no evidence to support the inexistence of God, either. Also, we're talking here of a deity that is exterior to the individual. Because, if God is only a product of my mind, then he is as real as my thoughts are real. If you have a better word to describe the lack of presence than 'absence', I'm all ears.

  Ruby

  there are so many things in life that can fill it with meaning and enjoyment, that God isn't a necessity unless you're in absolute dispair. Even then, most people realize that God wasn't there for them in their hour of need. He was conspicuosly ... Absent.

  Eden
• 
  284

  I'm an ABSENTHEIST. Are you also?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it just dawned on me.

  the existence of god can't be proved, neither is there evidence of god's inexistence.

  so, i'm neither theist neither atheist.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Ruby, I understand that is the case. That's why I think that the term "atheism" is only correct when we're talking about the "hard atheist" type. Being skeptical about the existence of God does not equal being hard atheist, and that's why I think a new, different term is needed to clarify the difference. I too am on the skeptical side, but I refuse to be identified with atheism, especially the kind of rabid, evangelizing, dogmatic and proselitizing kind of atheism that has become popular in recent years. Plus, I want to keep an open mind to evidence in favor of the existence of God, albeit I concede it may be a remote possibility.

  Thinking about how I would define my stand regarding God, I have concluded that the only thing I can personally be positive about it is that is not present, it's absent. Hence, absentheism is a term that defines a specific skepticism about the existence or non existence of deities, based on the basic premise that God isn't demonstrably present.

  Eden
• 
  284

  I'm an ABSENTHEIST. Are you also?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it just dawned on me.

  the existence of god can't be proved, neither is there evidence of god's inexistence.

  so, i'm neither theist neither atheist.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  You're clinging to the notion that "absence" implies "existence". I have demonstrated that such isn't the case, as it accepts both the possibility or existence or non-existence. It merely notes that God (or deity) isn't present, and that is the only positive empirical statement that can be said about God.

  It doesn't make anyone a theist or atheist - it is the most fundamental and demonstratable of skeptical statements about God.

  Eden
• 
  284

  I'm an ABSENTHEIST. Are you also?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it just dawned on me.

  the existence of god can't be proved, neither is there evidence of god's inexistence.

  so, i'm neither theist neither atheist.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  MASH, I'm using the term "absent" in the rational sense, i.e., "not present". I'm not making any claims regarding the existence or not of deities. I'm just claiming that, upon empirical observation, God wasn't found to be present. And this is all we can say with certainty about God.

  Now, a reasonable claim is: "But, what deity, or what God, are we talking about?"

  This is where it gets more complex.

  Let's assume that the God I have in mind is:

  a) Immaterial

  b) Intelligent

  c) One, unique and undividable entity

  d) Possesses powers beyond my comprehension

  e) Possesses knowledge and wisdom beyond my comprehension

  f) Has a personality with qualities that humans can relate to

  g) Is the origin of the universe and life itself

  h) Interacts with his creation

  h) Wants our worship

  i) Wants us to know his ways and his will

  j) Is willing to befriend or adopt humans based on their faith and/or good deeds.

  k) He is good, loving and compassionate.

  Let's also assume that I conceptualize this deity because of the religious upbringing I had, the western culture I grew up in, and the era in history I lived on.

  Now, if I look around, I concede that there is no hard, empirical evidence that such deity exists. There is testimonial evidence in ancient "holy books" and people who claim they are in touch with such deity. There is a sensation that the existence of such deity would be highly desirable and that may be the foundation of faith for some people. Some people look at the universe and life and beauty and conclude that it could only come from a supernatural power. However, I'm not able to replicate those experiences and I cannot observe nor experience such deity in any meaningful way. There are empirical and logical explanations for the universe, life and beauty that don't require the existence of deities. Therefore, I can rightfully be skeptical of the existence of such deity. But I cannot entirely rule out that it may exist, either, because neither I, nor anyone has scanned the entire universe and all physical dimensions to learn empirically that such deity doesn't exist. So, what can I say about this deity?

  All I can say is that such deity isn't present, that it failed to be present where it was expected to be found, in a word, such deity is ABSENT.

  It's not the same as agnosticism, whose claim is: "God, if it exists, is unknowable". My belief is that if God exists, it should be possible for humans to apprehend his existence using the resources common to all humans (i.e. not resorting to special, magical powers that only certain people claim to have).

  It's not the same as hard atheism who claims positively "Deities don't exist", because I can't make such claim with absolute certainty. Actually, the only form of atheism that is true to its name is hard atheism.

  Absentheism is perhaps a new expression that I am now coining, but I posit that it's the truest expression of skepticism regarding the existence of deities, because it makes a positive claim ("God is absent") rather than a negative claim ("There's no evidence that supports the existence of deities"), and therefore, the burden of proof falls mainly on the negative claim rather than on the positive claim. I CAN prove that God is absent, but I CAN'T prove that God doesn't exist. Can you see the difference?

  Eden