stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.
what exactly is "belief"?.
is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?
Jonathan Drake and Viviane,
For the sake of argument, let's assume a monotheistic god akin to the Christian god, minus the whole god-became-man part. Let's call it Spanx, the Almighty. I wonder where do you want to take the discussion from there.
Eden
stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.
what exactly is "belief"?.
is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?
Sorry ... is there an official certification program for quality atheist websites? Please enlighten me. Because if one demands 'agreed upon definitions', then it would be expected that a website that offers research tools for someone who's interested in learning about atheism, presents an article written by someone who claims to be an expert in agnosticism and atheism [Mr. Austin Cline], and then gives definitions that are incorrect? Seems to me that there's confusion in the atheist side of the fence. Why then should your authority be more credible than that of Mr. Cline? Just curious about credentials.
Eden
stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.
what exactly is "belief"?.
is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?
Viviane: As usual, you demonstrate you understand neither.
It was you who so insisted that we stick to 'agreed upon definitions'. That definition comes from an official page on atheism. What more can I say?
Eden
stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.
what exactly is "belief"?.
is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?
Are you talking monotheism or polytheism?
I didn't know I had to chose. The traits I gave apply to both monotheist god or polytheist gods. Let's just say that polytheist gods are specialized gods. Why not throw into the possibilities henotheism also? And still, why do I have to define?
Eden
stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.
what exactly is "belief"?.
is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?
Talesin: Actually, it's exactly the opposite.
Well, are you sure you got your facts right?
"By now, the difference between being an atheist and being an agnostic should be pretty clear and pretty easy to remember. Atheism is about belief, or specifically what you don't believe. Agnosticism is about knowledge, or specifically about what you don't know. An atheist doesn't believe in any gods. An agnostic doesn't know if any gods exist or not. These can be the exact same person, but need not be."
Extracted from atheism.about.com
.. you're welcome.
Eden
stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.
what exactly is "belief"?.
is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?
Atheism is a position about belief, while agnosticism is a position about knowledge.
Eden
stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.
what exactly is "belief"?.
is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?
Jonathan Drake,
You're not making sense to ME. I didn't attempt to define God, nor rationalize God. Viviane kept challenging me to do it, as if I was a theist. That's like trying to make a water spring produce ginger ale. And that's why it was upsetting me, because I can't see the point in doing so.
Eden
stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.
what exactly is "belief"?.
is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?
Simon: The OP is deliberately unclear.
The OP was asking for a clarification, that's why it was a question. What exactly are we talking about when we talk about belief? And what exactly are we talking about in the definition of atheism as "lack of belief in deities"? And how is that related to the common claim that such lack of belief stems from "lack of evidence"?
As the debate went on, I expressed some of my ideas and perplexities, and received a big backlash because I don't yield just because X and Y say so. It's not a fair critique to say i was deliberately unclear.
Eden
stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.
what exactly is "belief"?.
is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?
Viviane: You've been vague and gotten upset when you were asked to be clear.
How am I supposed to define a deity which I don't believe in? That's why, when you repeatedly asked me to define a deity, the best I could do was to give you some common traits of deities that are worshipped by a large percentage of the world's population. I can't be any clearer than that. Do you go around asking atheists: "define me god?"
Eden
stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.
what exactly is "belief"?.
is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?
eden, radicalism only has a bad name because at the moment it is associated with ISIS.
I don't agree. Radicalism isn't new. Basically it means "change at the root" and, when associated with politics, it has been expressed by means of revolutions. Revolutions are violent movements. In the religious arena, "radicalism" is usually associated with attempts from one group to impose their theological ideas on others, either by aggressive proselitism, forced conversion, or outright violence, and death. ISIS is just the most recent incarnation, but "radicalism" in the realm of ideas is also not new.
To me, Jehovah's Witnesses are a borderline radical christian cult, because they proactively engage in proselytization (although I can't say "aggressively") and they advocate the conversion of the entire mankind to jehovism by means of a massive genocide at Armaggedon.
If an advocate for atheism [or insert any other -ism that you can think of] aims to aggressively uproot theism from their audience, to change the other person at the root of their belief system, even if that attempt isn't welcome, doesn't that qualify as "radical"? That was the use I gave to "radicalism" before.
Eden
