What is obtuse is insisting in trying to engage a non-theist with a question that should be directed at a theist. You won't get a reply from a non-theist. Why do you insist?
Eden
EdenOne
JoinedPosts by EdenOne
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233
What is BELIEF ?
by EdenOne instemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.
what exactly is "belief"?.
is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?
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Getting JWs To Think By Using Their Own Tactics On Them.
by Island Man ini've been thinking that an effective way to expose the idiocy and vacuousness of jwism is to use it right back on them when they come to your door.
say you're a fader and you've moved to the territory of a different circuit where the jws there don't know your jw background.
when they come knocking at your door, just put on the jw mindset and pretend to yourself that the jws at the door are not jws but members of a "false religion.".
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EdenOne
It's a funny idea, but hard to master and not give away that you're really an ex-JW. I'd like to hear about it when someone actually does this.
Eden
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233
What is BELIEF ?
by EdenOne instemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.
what exactly is "belief"?.
is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?
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EdenOne
Viviane: You're adorable
awww shucks! Thanks!!
(fallacy of taking out of context)
Eden
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233
What is BELIEF ?
by EdenOne instemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.
what exactly is "belief"?.
is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?
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EdenOne
Ruby, thanks for putting it in such a succint way.
Eden
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233
What is BELIEF ?
by EdenOne instemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.
what exactly is "belief"?.
is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?
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EdenOne
Azor: Cofty and Viviane and others with your viewpoint why bother engaging eden one and outlaw? It seems like you give credibility to a subject that doesn't merit it.
To begin with, if you don't like this thread, you can chose not to read it. Easy. However, many do and, even if they don't have light bulb moments, at least they can see that this isn't all black and white. It's more complicated and nuanced than hard theists and hard atheists usually claim it is. So, I think a thread like this is useful, even if, as you said, is at times discussing things "out there".
Discussions about words aren't exactly "triffles"; only for those with lazy minds. Definitions matter, especially when one is trying to determine exactly where he/she stands.
This thread started out by making a question: What exactly is "belief"? When an atheist claims he lacks belief, what exactly is that belief that's lacking? Is that lack of belief a belief in itself? That's what we've been discussing. It's not irrelevant.
The tactic of not "discussing with theists because it lends credence to their claims" is advocated by modern atheists. But this question is being made by a non-theist. So basically you suggest that atheists should only debate with other atheists? Isn't that some sort of intellectual masturbation? Or isn't that a sign of lazyness?
Eden
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God evolved from chimpanzee diety
by freemindfade inresearchers say todays lord almighty shares many traits in common with the chimp deity, including color vision and omniscience.. .
berkeley, cachallenging long-held views on the origins of divinity, biologists at the university of california, berkeley, presented findings thursday that confirm god, the almighty creator of the universe, evolved from an ancient chimpanzee deity.. the recently discovered sacred ancestor, a divine chimp species scientists have named pan sanctorum, reportedly gave rise over millions of years to the lord our god, maker of heaven and earth.. although perhaps not obvious at first glance, there are actually overwhelming similarities between the supreme being of today and this early primate deity who preceded him, said dr. richard kamen, a leading biologist who also heads berkeleys paleotheology department.
the holy chimp moved around on all fours, but its descendants eventually began walking upright to expend less energy while foraging across the infinite reaches of the universe.
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EdenOne
the adaptive value of Pan sanctorum’s immortality proved critical to its survival,” said Kamen
Priceless!
Eden
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233
What is BELIEF ?
by EdenOne instemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.
what exactly is "belief"?.
is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?
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EdenOne
Cofty: Believers get coy about defining their god because the more they say about it the easier it is to debunk. Therefore they try to be as vague as possible when debating about god. When it comes to proselytising though they have no problem being specific. Suddenly they know exactly what god does, says, likes and dislikes.
I agree.
What then constitutes "evidence"? A theist will present as evidence certain things (creation, beauty, goodness, miracles, revelations, holy writings) that a rationalist will dismiss as valid evidence. Then the theist pulls the card that he experiences god within, a personal mystical connection that only people of faith can possibly experience. To them, that's evidence. I presume this too will be dismissed by a rationalist. So, if both cannot agree on what is "evidence", where do we stand regarding knowledge? To the theist, he "knows" because he has "evidence" that god exists.
If an atheist has lack of evidence and evidence against, but no affirmative evidence of the inexistence of god ( because logically one can't prove a negative) what can he know about a given deity?
Eden
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233
What is BELIEF ?
by EdenOne instemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.
what exactly is "belief"?.
is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?
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EdenOne
Linking back to the OP ... Regarding Spanx, - and just pretend for a moment that you didn't have reliable information that I just made it up - do you:
a) Claim the he doesn't exist because no god, or gods, or deities exist?
b) Declare that you lack belief in Spanx because you don't have evidence concerning its existence?
c) Declare that you cannot be sure that Spanx or any deity exists, because there's not enough evidence for or against or deities are unknowable?
d) ... ?
Eden
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233
What is BELIEF ?
by EdenOne instemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.
what exactly is "belief"?.
is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?
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EdenOne
Viviane, it was you who started this nonsensical polemic of asking me to define god. I told you over and over that I'M NOT A THEIST, and therefore I don't know how to define a god for you. If you must ask that question, ask a theist.
Since you were oblivious to what I wrote, I decided to oblige and make up a god for you; in any case, Cofty said that every god ever named is a human invention. So, I might just as well make up a prop god on the fly. Just to see where you were going with this. And naturally, I'm playing the part of a believer in said god. And I'm asking you the same questions a theist believer would ask.
Naturally, this isn't what I was asking in my OP. But since you insisted in taking the thread in this direction, so be it.
Eden
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233
What is BELIEF ?
by EdenOne instemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.
what exactly is "belief"?.
is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?
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EdenOne
Remember that I'm playing the devil's advocate here. To me, Spanx's believer, there's abundant evidence. Now, I ask of you, atheist, how can you prove me that Spanx, whom you deny to exist, doesn't exist. How can you know for sure? Or do you not believe because you don't have sufficient evidence?
Eden