http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=a136641.
see last item:.
"media request to record/broadcast oral argument; from abc news new york".
I guess that settles that.
Let’s see if I get it now?
Parents that are brainwashed are not responsible for their child’s well being and therefore not expected to do the right thing in their child’s interest , but elders, etc... that are brainwashed, are responsible and expected to do the right thing in the interest of another persons child as well as their own if it happen to them.
http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=a136641.
see last item:.
"media request to record/broadcast oral argument; from abc news new york".
http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=a136641.
see last item:.
"media request to record/broadcast oral argument; from abc news new york".
If you follow the different courtcases and the threads of Barbara Anderson, you will be enlightened as to the facts.
These instructions, not to report it to the authorities, have come down from the top, and has been enforced by CO's and elders alike.
You have no idea what you are talking about when you speak of being "enlightened as to the facts”.
Do you feel that the parents that are aware that someone has abused their child should go to the authorities or the elders?
I am not asking you what you say the elders say to do or what you say is said from the top… I am asking you what should the parents do?
I’m guessing you would say they should go to the authorities.
Well, if the parents did go to the authorities then it would not matter one way or the other of what the policies of the WTS are.
http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=a136641.
see last item:.
"media request to record/broadcast oral argument; from abc news new york".
You are a moral coward who refuses to condemn a policy that has contributed to the rape of many children inside an organisation that is built on trust.
What I am condemning is someone whom becomes aware that their child or a child has been abused and does not go to the authorities first but instead goes to the elders and then that someone continues to not go to the authorities but then blames the elders and the WTS policies for the reason of why it is not reported to the authorities.
http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=a136641.
see last item:.
"media request to record/broadcast oral argument; from abc news new york".
As far as my view of the WTS policy in regards to child abuse you can find it here:
http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=a136641.
see last item:.
"media request to record/broadcast oral argument; from abc news new york".
Are you trying to defend the Watchtower policy of refusing to assist a child who has been raped unless there was another witness to the crime?
No, I am not defending the WTS, I am just showing that the “two witnesses rule” still applies even after the “Mosaic law was cancelled”.
Why do you think there are so many cases of child abuse among Jehovah's Witnesses?
I think that there are many cases of child abuse period, and not just among Jehovah's Witnesses.
http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=a136641.
see last item:.
"media request to record/broadcast oral argument; from abc news new york".
Vidqun said: The irony is that the Witnesses believe the Mosaic law was cancelled out when Jesus came, but they stubbornly insist on enforcing the "two-witness rule."
Deuteronomy 19:15 “No single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or any sin, in the case of any sin that he may commit. At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good.
2 Corinthians 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to YOU. “At the mouth of two witnesses or of three every matter must be established.”
Matthew 18:16 But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established.
the title says it all, do you think that the gb will ever bring up these cases in their literature or in a talk?
i'm not talking about them just mentioning "persecution" i'm talking about actually bringing up child abuse cases and trying to justify it.. or will it just remain the elephant in the room until years have passed?.
.
The blame on the WTS is not as if parents think that they are responsible for their children, but rather that their policies allow for this to continue to happen and to go unreported.
You can rant and rave that it is because of the policies as to the reason why it continues to go unreported, but I tell that if it is not reported it is because the parents did not report it at the time they became aware, and if it continues to go unreported, then its because the parents continue not to do so.
True, they do not interefere with whomever wants to report the case to the police, but they never assure that if you do, you won't have consequences within the cong.
Your statement makes my argument… this shows that the parents can go to the police and report it from the get go, if that was what took place to begin with then it would never be an issue as to the elders reporting it or policies of the WTS.
As far as the second part of that statement having to do with “consequences within the cong” again this still falls on the parents. A good parent says, “screw whatever so-called consequences within the cong may be, my child comes first” and a bad parent says “screw my child, the congregation comes first.”
the title says it all, do you think that the gb will ever bring up these cases in their literature or in a talk?
i'm not talking about them just mentioning "persecution" i'm talking about actually bringing up child abuse cases and trying to justify it.. or will it just remain the elephant in the room until years have passed?.
.
When are y’all going to ever wake up and start blaming the parents of the children that have been abused??? They are the ones that are responsible for their own children, not some elder in their congregation or the GB up in NY.
There is plenty to say about the WTS/GB that is well warranted… I for one despise them (GB), the org as a whole, and those that follow them/it as their golden calf. You will get NO argument from me there, but when it comes to the policies of the WTS in regards to child abuse, there is nothing wrong with them as far as they pertain to a religious institution, which the WTS is.
It should be of no surprise that they are going to view and handle things based on what their understanding of the bible is (rather it is the correct understanding or if it is the incorrect understanding, it doesn’t matter either way here in regards to.) so policies such as two witnesses and reporting to the law where the law requires such, etc… is following the bible and the laws of the land.
It all comes down to the parents…
1 st don’t allow your child to be in a position to be alone with the individuals in which these incidents take place. (Parents make that effort when their children are older and dating making sure they always have chaperons so they don’t fornicate before getting married.)
2 nd make sure to teach your child to come to you and tell you right away if they are ever touched, etc… in anyway that falls under being sexually abused… and then it is the parents responsibility from that moment on to go straight to the police and report it… CASE CLOSED.
There is nothing wrong with the following:
If the parent went straight to the elders instead of the police then that parent should be charged right along with the molester. It is the parents that are aiding in covering up these incidents, not the elders, nor the WTS/GB. It does not matter if we feel the policies of the WTS are lacking or not, their policies have no bearing on the parent taken the actions that many here claim the elders and WTS should take.
i have been dropping comments to a few re some classic old beliefs and teachings etc... and when asked "where did you read that, or how come you are saying such and such?
" i have replied "well, you remember we have often been told to study and research our old 'theocratic history' and 'old gems' of material?....
now though i have been challenged to prove where this has been printed!.
Taken from the 2004 WT library
[5-15-57 WT- 7 Those who really are growing in maturity find that familiarity with basic theocratic publications is a tremendous aid in their field ministry, enabling them to draw on a firm background of knowledge and thus to answer most of the questions they encounter in field service. Further, when they prepare a discourse for delivery at congregational meetings they do not merely rehash material that they presented in all their previous talks, but they search for further information that will make the talk really alive with sound spiritual counsel. Their zeal for knowledge may even prompt them to dig back into things that were published long before they came into the truth, expanding and deepening their understanding, and ever growing in Christian maturity.
8 Do you dig out older publications to expand and deepen your knowledge on subjects about which questions arise? Have you really studied these earlier publications? When a brother gives a talk, can you, to impress the information upon your mind further, identify the particular publication from which his points were taken? If he discusses Jesus’ earthly family, do you remember that the “Questions from Readers” section of the December 15, 1950, Watchtower told how we know that Jesus did have other brothers and sisters? When he points out that the Christian should not use profanity, do you remember that this was discussed in the article “Progress Toward Taming the Tongue,” February 15, 1951? When he tells about the different kinds of spirit creatures, namely, angels, cherubim, seraphim and the archangel, and describes their various positions, do you remember that this was considered on pages 50 to 53 of the book “The Truth Shall Make You Free”? Probably you will not remember the dates or page numbers, but do you remember the discussions? Can you use the Scripture index to find the pages? Can you explain these matters when someone questions you about them? Brothers who have a mature knowledge may even have recently looked up these subjects to refresh their memories on them before discussing them with newly interested persons.]
