As far as an outline talk, that talk is still given presently, but that particular quoted talk that I posted was given in Oct of 2001.
22:06 – 22:30 mark
johnamos
JoinedPosts by johnamos
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54
What Views or Beliefs Do Jehovah’s Witnesses No Longer Teach?
by minimus inevidently they have changed their creative day from being 7000 years per day.
all blood transfusions were taboo but now blood fractions might be allowed to be taken into the body.
vaccinations were sinful at one time but not now.. can you name other views or beliefs that have changed from being considered “truth” to no longer “the truth “?.
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johnamos
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54
What Views or Beliefs Do Jehovah’s Witnesses No Longer Teach?
by minimus inevidently they have changed their creative day from being 7000 years per day.
all blood transfusions were taboo but now blood fractions might be allowed to be taken into the body.
vaccinations were sinful at one time but not now.. can you name other views or beliefs that have changed from being considered “truth” to no longer “the truth “?.
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johnamos
Nope, not as far as fulfilling prophecy!
When they say they no longer refer to Christendom as the antitypical Jerusalem that means that all past/present teachings where they applied prophecies to Christendom, actually instead apply to them. (JW’s WTS/GB)
Example:
[7-1-84 WT p.11, 12 par. 16 - In like fashion, Jehovah will bring a heavily armed modern-day Assyrian as his “rod” and “ax” to execute apostate Christendom.]
[11-15-13 WT p. 19,20 par 16 - In the past, the people of Jerusalem were attacked by the Assyrians. Soon, Jehovah’s people will again be attacked by an “Assyrian,” or enemy, that will try to destroy them. The Scriptures refer to that attack as well as the attack of ‘Gog of Magog,’ the attack of “the king of the north,” and the attack of “the kings of the earth.”]
AND:
[12-15-75 WT p.743 -
Christendom’sJW's “holy place,” however, will soon be invaded and destroyed. It is no more sacred in the eyes of God than were Jerusalem and her temple prior to their destruction in 70 C.E.The religions of ChristendomJW's will be deprived of their field of operation, losing control of everything. No respect will be shown for any of their claimed religious rights.]* See link for why I can cross out Christendom.
[Quote from “What the Future Holds” talk; speaking about Gog’s attack – “What’s the point? Brothers, we should expect them to despoil us of our human rights. We should expect them to confiscate all of Jehovah’s belongings and close down and take possession of all our branches, factories, depots, kingdom halls, assembly halls, everything. Don’t make any mistake about it. We are all in this together. We have a common enemy.”]
[Restored At Last! p. 187-188 - The nations will “devise an evil plan.” They will seek to vent their long-standing rage and hatred on Jehovah’s worshippers, who will seem vulnerable, as if “living in settlements unprotected by walls, bars, or gates.” The nations will also be eager to “take much spoil and plunder” from those “who are accumulating wealth.” (Ezek. 38:10-12)… The nations may try to disrupt our way of life and stop us from carrying out our worship. To that end, perhaps they will try to interrupt the flow of spiritual food, prevent us from meeting together, break up the unity we enjoy, and stop us from zealously proclaiming God’s message.]
[Isaiah 10:5 “Aha, the As·syr´i·an, the rod for my anger, and the stick that is in their hand for my denunciation! 6 Against an apostate nation I shall send him, and against the people of my fury I shall issue a command to him, to take much spoil and to take much plunder and to make it a trampling place like the clay of the streets.]
[Ezekiel 38:13 Is it to do much plundering that you have congregated your congregation, in order to carry off silver and gold, to take wealth and property, to get a very great spoil?”’]
[6-1-81 WT p.30 - Joel 3 2-16, 19 It tells us why Jehovah is angry with the nations—because of the way they have treated his servants. They scattered them among the nations, making slaves of them. Also, they robbed Jehovah’s temple of its gold, silver and other desirable things, and brought these into their own temples.]
[Joel 1:10 The field has been despoiled, the ground has gone to mourning; for the grain has been despoiled, the new wine has been dried up, the oil has faded away. 11 Farmers have felt shame; vinedressers have howled, …the harvest of the field has perished.17 Dried figs have shriveled under their shovels. Storehouses have been laid desolate. Barns have been torn down, for the grain has dried up. 18 O how the domestic animal has sighed! How the droves of cattle have wandered in confusion! For there is no pasturage for them. Also, the droves of the sheep have been the ones made to bear guilt. 19 “To you, O Jehovah, I shall call; for fire itself has devoured the pasture grounds of the wilderness, and a very flame has consumed all the trees of the field. 20 The beasts of the field also keep longing for you, because the channels of water have dried up, and fire itself has devoured the pasture grounds of the wilderness.”]
[3-15-61 WT p.192 –The opening verse of Isaiah 29 shows that these words are addressed to Ariel, concerning which the footnote of the New World Translation states: “‘Ariel.’ Meaning, perhaps, ‘the altar hearth of God’; or, ‘the lion of God.’ Designating Jerusalem here.” This prophecy would therefore apply to spiritual Jerusalem as represented upon earth by the remnant. These words show that God’s earthly organization would come under attack and would be reduced to a very low state by the enemies of God’s kingdom. God’s people would be, as it were, crushed to the earth, at the time of Gog’s attack upon them, so that what utterance they made, what vocal sounds they made, would come up from low down in their abasement. It would be sound coming up from the very dust of the earth. It would be as if a spirit medium were talking with the vocal sound coming from the dust of the earth.]
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54
What Views or Beliefs Do Jehovah’s Witnesses No Longer Teach?
by minimus inevidently they have changed their creative day from being 7000 years per day.
all blood transfusions were taboo but now blood fractions might be allowed to be taken into the body.
vaccinations were sinful at one time but not now.. can you name other views or beliefs that have changed from being considered “truth” to no longer “the truth “?.
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johnamos
The BIGGEST view/belief that they no longer teach is that they were not judged back in 1918/19, but instead that judgment is still future, corresponding with Gog's attack.
Of course they teach that indirectly...
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The Lords prayer ;Our Father prayer...."Let your name be sanctified " from Jesus.
by smiddy3 inaccording to mathew 6:9 jesus instructed his followers in, vs. 9 " you must pray, then this way "our father in the heavens,let your name be sanctified ..... which rank & file jehovah`s witnesses have been led to believe for the past 140 or so years is to make a personal name of god namely jehovah known to all of the world ,because as they have so loudly professed christendom has kept that name away from the general public.. not true ,raymundus martinus a spanish catholic monk of the 13th-14th century first coined that name for god and it has been used in and on churches throughout christendom in the world ever since.. true christendoms emphasis has been on witnessing about jesus christ which is what the new testament is all about,not jehovah god, but jesus christ .
phillipians 2 :9-11. in the new testament ,( cgs ) jesus christ is never recorded as saying the personal name of god ever.. " " none of the apostles are ever recorded as saying the personal name of god ever.. " " none of his disciples are ever recorded as saying the personal name of god ever.. the new testament ,christian greek scriptures are all about bearing witness about jesus christ and after his time of bringing back people under his kingdom will he turn then it back over to his father, a thousand years when his rule is finished.. that is the message of the"kingdom interlinear of the christian greek scriptures" published by the wtb&ts ,says..
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johnamos
Smiddy, why so obsessed with this monk?
You said:
[The name Jehovah was unheard of before the 13th Century simply because no one beforehand had added vowels to those four Hebrew consonants representing Gods name ….And then comes along a Spanish Catholic Monk of the 13th Century that adds vowels to those 4 Hebrew consonants and he comes up with the name Jehovah.]
And:
[Raymundus Martinus a Spanish Catholic monk of the 13th-14th Century first coined that name for God and it has been used in and on Churches throughout Christendom in the world ever since.]
You never answered the following questions:
Do you agree that the Jews never stopped pronouncing the following 3 words in the Scriptures?
3050. Yah
3470. Ysha'yah
3092. Yehoshaphat
Do you agree that those 3 words written in Hebrew are consonants only and the vowels there are inserted based on how they would pronounce those words?
יה
ישעיה
הושפט
Do you agree that a Hebrew speaking person would have no dispute about those 3 Hebrew words when it comes to spelling and pronouncing them in English the way they are written in those Scriptures?
Jah
Isaiah
Jehoshaphat
Did the Spanish Catholic Monk of the 13th Century have anything to do with the vowels used in those 3 Hebrew words?
And you say that the CGS never recorded ‘the personal name of God ever”.
You can’t make that claim. You can say that the oldest copies on hand of the CGS do not have it recorded but you can’t be certain that the original and the copies of those that existed before the oldest ones on hand, did not have it recorded.
You can turn that around on me and claim that I can’t claim that it was recorded in the original and copies that did exist prior to the ones now on hand. But I will say this, that any reasonable person can conclude that in the CGS where there is quoting from the Hebrew Scriptures, verses that do contain the YHVH, that Jesus and his apostles would have said the personal name of God as it was written in those verses.
In your own words, what does the name Jehoshua mean?
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Is It Possible The Jehovah's Witnesses Are Led By The "Man of Lawlessness"?
by Observer1217 into all current jehovah's witnesses:.
the "report" book (written october 1994) on page 201, made the following startling prediction about all jehovah's witnesses and their future relationship with the governing body by saying: .
“...and so, the watchtower magazine under the present-day governing body arrangement, is placed on the same level, given parity and equal status, with god’s word.
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johnamos
Sea Breeze
Does not say God, says Who!
1 Tim. 3: 16 And confessedly, great is the mystery of godliness: Who was revealed in the flesh, was justified in the Spirit, was seen by angels, was proclaimed among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_timothy/3-16.htm
What name did God give and what does it mean?
Phil 2: 9-10 Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him the name above all names, that at the name of
JesusJehoshua every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,Luke 1:31 and, look! you will conceive in your womb and give birth to a son, and you are to call his name
JesusJehoshua.'Jehovah is salvation'
And Observer1217, no the MOL is the same as KFIC, 8th king, wild beast ch 13, disgusting thing, KOTN, etc…which is the UN.
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New Light on the 144,000?
by Ding insomeone on facebook is claiming to have reliable information that the gb is about to announce new light on the 144,000 -- that it's symbolic, not literal.. one person suggested that they will retain the two-class teaching and just change the meaning of 144,000. his idea was that the change would avoid three problems with the current teaching:.
1. embarrassment over more and more partakers at the memorial when the number should be getting less and less.. 2. embarrassment over 12 symbolic 12,000s somehow equaling a literal 144,000.. 3. solving the problem of running out of "anointed" ones who are old enough to be on the gb.. thoughts?.
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johnamos
It is very possible that the 144k are literal in number.
The problem is, is that the WTS/GB teaches that being a so-called anointed means you are chosen to rule as kings with Jesus for the 1, 000 years. The reality is that all those that will rule as kings with Jesus are anointed (called) but not all anointed (called) will rule as kings.
There is not a limit on the amount of so-called anointed that get the calling but from all those that are called there is a limited number (144K?) of ones that will be chosen to rule as kings.
Jesus no doubt chose Paul personally. He was anointed and used by Jesus and yet Paul knowing that he was chosen and being used to preach about the kingdom, etc… he still explained that he was hoping to be chosen for what he referred to as the upward call/earlier resurrection, which is the first resurrection in which those who are part of will be the ones who rule as kings with Jesus.
In order to be one that can be of the first resurrection and thereby rule as a king, one has to be called and as a called one die as a martyr or live during the time that the wild beast (8th king) is in authority and is given out its mark. A called one during that time will have to successfully refuse the mark and refuse to worship the beast.
[Matthew 22:14 “For there are many called, but few chosen.”]
[Philippians 3:10 so as to know him and the power of his resurrection and a sharing in his sufferings, submitting myself to a death like his, 11 to see if I may by any means attain to the earlier resurrection from the dead.12 Not that I have already received it or am already made perfect, but I am pursuing to see if I may also lay hold on that for which I have also been laid hold on by Christ Jesus. 13 Brothers, I do not yet consider myself as having laid hold on it; but there is one thing about it: Forgetting the things behind and stretching forward to the things ahead, 14 I am pursuing down toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God by means of Christ Jesus.]
[Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.]
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CO at assembly in Ohio repeatedly says great tribulation is "only minutes away"
by LevelThePlayingField insnippets of two talks by co at ca and during his visit to a congregation in ohio.
fear mongering at it's best.
has anyone else heard their co say the same nonsense?.
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johnamos
LOL:) A US and Iran war would no doubt be what would led into the GT. War with Iran would include Russia and China and end up being WW3, which is what will occur at some point, which will be the pretext for the kings of the earth to give their power to the wild beast (UN), which at that point will become the 8th king. The 8th king authority will be for 42 months (GT) and then Jesus will arrive at the end of that period.
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What’s The Worst Thing About Jehovah’s Witnesses?
by minimus inwitnesses brag about their brotherhood and incredible love that exists within the organization.
they say they are really the only true religion.
is the jw religion the closest thing to jesus christ himself?.
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johnamos
Quote - They say they are really the only true religion. – End quote
Quote - (I ask these questions with the hope of helping a Witness see the light). – End quote
What does the ‘only true religion' suppose to look like in your view...what is the light that you want them to see?
Is that short enough for ya...
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What’s The Worst Thing About Jehovah’s Witnesses?
by minimus inwitnesses brag about their brotherhood and incredible love that exists within the organization.
they say they are really the only true religion.
is the jw religion the closest thing to jesus christ himself?.
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johnamos
Quote - They say they are really the only true religion. – End quote
Quote - (I ask these questions with the hope of helping a Witness see the light). – End quote
What does the ‘only true religion' suppose to look like in your view...what is the light that you want them to see?
According to the Scriptures they do fit the description of the true religion and there is a plan in place for them to see the so-called light.
The Scriptures state that Jehovah’s people will be misled by lie after lie by those that are leading them and speaking in his name.
[Ezekiel 13:3 This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: “Woe to the stupid prophets, who are walking after their own spirit, when there is nothing that they have seen!… 6 “They have visioned what is untrue and a lying divination, those who are saying, ‘The utterance of Jehovah is,’ when Jehovah himself has not sent them, and they have waited to have a word come true. 7 Is it not an untrue vision that YOU men have visioned, and a lying divination that YOU have said, when saying, ‘The utterance of Jehovah is,’ when I myself have spoken nothing?”’ 8 “‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: “‘For the reason that YOU men have spoken untruth and YOU have visioned a lie, therefore here I am against YOU,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.” 9 And my hand has come to be against the prophets that are visioning untruth and that are divining a lie. In the intimate group of my people they will not continue on, and in the register of the house of Israel they will not be written, and to the soil of Israel they will not come; and YOU people will have to know that I am the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, 10 for the reason, yes, for the reason that they have led my people astray, saying, “There is peace!” when there is no peace, and there is one that is building a partition wall, but in vain there are those plastering it with whitewash.’ 11 “Say to those plastering with whitewash that it will fall. A flooding downpour will certainly occur, and YOU, O hailstones, will fall, and a blast of windstorms itself will cause a splitting. 12 And, look! the wall must fall. Will it not be said to YOU men, ‘Where is the coating with which YOU did the plastering?’]
The whole basis for the 1914 teaching is to claim that they were judged back in 1918/19. Every lie that they teach in order to maintain the 1914 (wall) lie, is what amounts to the plastering it with whitewash in order to maintain the wall that is filled with cracks. Making the claim that they were already judged in the past is what allows then to say; “There is peace”, between them and Jehovah now, but the fact is that the judgment is still future, so there is no peace now and Jehovah states that he will cause that wall (lie) to fall. When he does so, that will be the true time of judgment and the so-called see the light moment.
You are aware that the WTS/GB teach that Gog will come upon them in the future. Well, Ezekiel 39:23,24 makes clear why Jehovah sends Gog upon his people. Gog’s attack is also the same as the attack by the Northerner in Joel’s account and the attack on the ‘holy place’ by ‘the disgusting thing’ and attack on Ariel and numerous others like the 8th king, KFIC, wild beast of Rev ch.13, MOL, etc.
[Ezekiel 39:23 And the nations will have to know that it was because of their error that they, the house of Israel, went into exile, on account of the fact that they behaved unfaithfully toward me, so that I concealed my face from them and gave them into the hand of their adversaries, and they kept falling, all of them, by the sword. 24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions I did with them, and I kept concealing my face from them.’]
[Luke 21:20 “Furthermore, when YOU see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near. 21 Then let those in Ju·de´a begin fleeing to the mountains, and let those in the midst of her withdraw, and let those in the country places not enter into her; 22 because these are days for meting out justice, that all the things written may be fulfilled. 23 Woe to the pregnant women and the ones suckling a baby in those days! For there will be great necessity upon the land and wrath on this people; 24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.] (Compare Matthew 24:15-22)
[Revelation 11:2 But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple sanctuary, cast it clear out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.]
[6-1-81 WT- Joel 3 2-16, 19 It tells us why Jehovah is angry with the nations—because of the way they have treated his servants. They scattered them among the nations, making slaves of them. Also, they robbed Jehovah’s temple of its gold, silver and other desirable things, and brought these into their own temples.]
[Ezekiel 38:13 Is it to do much plundering that you have congregated your congregation, in order to carry off silver and gold, to take wealth and property, to get a very great spoil?”’]
[3-15-61 WT– Isaiah 29:4 reads: “And you must become low so that you will speak from the very earth, and as from the dust your saying will sound low. And like a spirit medium your voice must become even from the earth, and from the dust your own saying will chirp.” The opening verse of Isaiah 29 shows that these words are addressed to Ariel, concerning which the footnote of the New World Translation states: “‘Ariel.’ Meaning, perhaps, ‘the altar hearth of God’; or, ‘the lion of God.’ Designating Jerusalem here.” This prophecy would therefore apply to spiritual Jerusalem as represented upon earth by the remnant. These words show that God’s earthly organization would come under attack and would be reduced to a very low state by the enemies of God’s kingdom. God’s people would be, as it were, crushed to the earth, at the time of Gog’s attack upon them, so that what utterance they made, what vocal sounds they made, would come up from low down in their abasement. It would be sound coming up from the very dust of the earth. It would be as if a spirit medium were talking with the vocal sound coming from the dust of the earth.]
[Isaiah 29:2 I will bring distress on Ar´i·el, and there will be be mourning and lamentation, and she must become to me as the altar hearth of God. 3 And I must encamp on all sides against you, and I must lay siege to you with a palisade and raise up against you siegeworks. 4 “And you must become low so that you will speak from the very earth, and as from the dust your saying will sound low. And like a spirit medium your voice must become even from the earth, and from the dust your own saying will chirp.” ]
[Luke 19:43 Because the days will come upon you when your enemies will build around you a fortification with pointed stakes and will encircle you and distress you from every side, 44 and they will dash you and your children within you to the ground, and they will not leave a stone upon a stone in you, because you did not discern the time of your being inspected.”]
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His Rose colored glasses are back on
by HappyBlessedFree inso my husband who was not attending meetings for the last four months, went to the special talk, the memorial and the meeting today.
he said he feels jehovah’s spirit is back and that they are all being so kind.. i am just sick to my stomach.
he just refuses to see anything as a problem.
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johnamos
Quote- Philippians 2:9 -10 God gave Jesus a name that is above every other name ( including the name Jehovah ) – End quote
(Luke 1:31) and, look! you will conceive in your womb and give birth to a son, and you are to call his name Jesus.*
(Luke 2:21) Now when eight days came to the full for circumcising him, his name was also called Jesus,* the name called by the angel before he was conceived in the womb.
* Greek - Ιησούς
Hebrew – יהושע 'Jehoshua' meaning: יהוה הוא ישועה - 'Jehovah is Salvation'