Posts by Journeyman

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Journeyman

I'd like to add to the suggestions for a concise 20min-or-so video that it should probably start by posing the question about what the "defamation campaign" is all about, something like:

"Lloyd Evans has been a prominent personality in the ex-JW community for a number of years. Yet since 2022 he has lost a lot of supporters, and Lloyd himself has complained of a "defamation campaign" against him.

What is this truth behind this alleged "defamation campaign"? Why did so many of his supporters leave him, including many members of the ex-JW community who had at one time or another worked with Lloyd on producing content against WT policies and in support of CSA victims?"

Then go in chronological order starting with LE's Jan 2022 livestream and what immediately led up to it (his comments to Kim/Bob and the messages with Dijana, etc) through to the recent begging, then summarise at the end a timeline of the other examples of his unstable behaviour in the past - his history in Manchester, CoC, intimidation of others, attitude on forums, YT and Twitter, etc - with links to more info, based on the pages and screenshots that are already out there. That will keep it focused and give viewers a sense of how he has repeatedly contradicted himself and tried to change the narrative over time.

It will be a challenge to condense it down, but slim is right, it's important to be succinct; it's also important to keep it factual and avoid over-emotive statements.

It's also important to move quickly with this, while his recent begging and claims of "defamation" are still fresh in people's minds, and those patrons who have contributed have only just signed up.

32

Is the ministry really taken seriously by most JWs?

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

what say you?.

Journeyman

As I said before, I do think the cart witnessing itself was not a bad idea, but the way the org has implemented it is totally ineffective, telling publishers not to engage passers-by unless they are first approached.

When it was first introduced (here in Europe at least), publishers could offer literature held in their hands, and could engage passers-by in conversation. That seems much more appealing (to those who might be interested, of course) and more potentially effective. Every single street preacher or vendor offering anything in public will approach people, rather than just passively stand around.

However, the org soon changed the 'direction' on how to do this, and now it is much less effective. Supposedly, they did not want the witnesses to seem like just free paper distributors or those intrusive charity volunteers you get on the streets (they're often known as "chuggers" here in the UK - short for "charity muggers" due to their persistent attempts to approach people asking for donations). Although I can see the point of that, they could've just introduce more careful guidance about how to do it. Instead, they basically told witnesses to stop holding literature and not to approach people.

I think there was an ulterior motive. During the months when the original way of doing things was in place, I know congregations were placing far more magazines than they did before the carts were introduced (I mean hundreds more), and many were enjoying conversations. I suspect the org heard about this from branches and got worried about the cost of printing additional copies to cover the demand. It usually comes down to money in the end. If they were really interested in "spreading the good news", then surely they should be pleased about that? They're always quoting scriptures about "liberally sowing seeds because you don't know where they will grow", etc. Even if many copies were discarded, the point is supposed to be about "reaching people".

Instead, they issued orders to make the trolley work far more passive and, as usual, killed what little 'joy' publishers might experience in their ministry. Now it's exactly as you see in that picture: standing around looking bored, hands in pockets or just chatting with the other witnesses around (or staring at their phone). Also, those ones in Barcelona are doing what most witnesses do now which puts people off approaching - all crowded too close to the carts. Even if someone were interested, they would probably be put off by this line of 'cart bodyguards' staring at them as they walk up.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Journeyman

I see our "friend" has uploaded a new video...

I've not watched because, frankly... I couldn't care less.
But someone who wants to take one for the team might want to watch it and update us on the latest dribble to emit from Mr LE...

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Journeyman

Just heard the UK entry for Eurovision 2023 by singer Mae Muller. The lyrics include:

"When you said you were leaving
To work on your mental health
You didn't mention the cheating
You kept that one to yourself"

Sounds like Ms Muller had been watching a certain person's livestream just before she wrote that...

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Journeyman

...aaaand now Lloyd's begging message has been deleted from Reddit. But not before it also got these unsympathetic replies too

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Journeyman

... and so another round of the interminable Lloyd Evans saga begins, including a new thread on Reddit. (I wonder how long that will last before it descends into chaos?)

Settle down with your popcorn and snacks, everyone!

32

Is the ministry really taken seriously by most JWs?

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

what say you?.

Journeyman

I also agree with Tonus - I never used to feel comfortable with some forms of ministry. Street work - stopping randoms as they go about their private business - and calling on homes at clearly inappropriate times, like Sunday mornings.

My favourite part of ministry was actually having Bible discussions/studies, because you knew the person wanted to be there, and it was a chance to really dig deeper and discuss their thoughts and feelings. But opportunities for these got rarer and rarer, partly due to increased lack of interest, but also partly due to the watering down of the study materials we were supposed to use.

Over the years, the two new tools which could have substantially improved the ministry are the website and the use of public carts (trolleys, as we often call them in the UK) - but even these methods have been watered down due to over-simplification.

The cart witnessing, which many mock, but I feel could be a good method if used properly, is reduced to advice to just stand there and smile at passers-by, then direct them to the website or swap numbers with them if they show interest.

I enjoyed it at first before they changed the rules (originally, we could stand offering publications in hand, and engage people in conversation), not once the role just became a mute nodding dog routine, made worse by other witnesses spending the time standing around chatting, drinking coffee and checking their phones.

32

Is the ministry really taken seriously by most JWs?

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

what say you?.

Journeyman

I agree with Diogenesister - when I first became a "publisher" sometime last century(!), it seemed many more Witnesses took the ministry more seriously, and even the lead set by GB1.0 supported that. The "society", as it used to be called back then (NOT "the organisation") seemed more serious about 'teaching' and 'reasoning' with people, with a "Theocratic Ministry School", more informative magazines and study publications for "interested ones", and tools like the Reasoning book (for all its flaws).

However, the two downsides of that were that 1) "fulltime servants" were often treated like some kind of superior grade of JW (and many acted as if they knew it), and 2) there was much more pressure to make your "hours" for the month, which were much more substantial.

Today, it's more of a sideshow. Noone really looks up to pioneers and other fulltime preachers now (although that's no bad thing). The majority of JWs go through the motions and the ministry itself is a parody of its former self: shadow videos with simplistic "presentations", video clips, constant "next time I call" style Q&As.

6

Ex- First Minister of Scotland's husband arrested................

by BoogerMan in

.........by police investigating the snp's missing £600,000.

(allegedly).

the police operation looks more like a murder scene!

Journeyman

I had to laugh when I heard this this morning. Along with seeing Trump in court, this has really made for a great week!

Well, now we know the real reason why the wee Krankie stepped down suddenly.
Hopefully, this scandal will kill off any likelihood of the SNP forcing the break up the United Kingdom for the foreseeable future.

14

Hailstone message.....June 23 WT

by mikeflood in

new jun 23 wt....elders to follow gideon example, even if instructions doesn't seems practical, gideon reduced army by 99 % and he obeyed, it could be changes in theocratic direction similar to this.

what that means?.

elders will need the courage to follow instructions "may relate to delivering a symbolic hailstone message...".. in another section "major world events may raise some from spiritual slumber".

Journeyman

New Jun 23 WT....elders to follow Gideon example, even if instructions doesn't seems practical, Gideon reduced army by 99 % and he obeyed, it could be changes in theocratic direction similar to this. What that means?

I'm not sure if they're softening up the congregations for something specific they've already got planned, or just keeping their options open to do whatever they feel like doing at the time depending on how the winds blow in the near future, but it's clearly a change in the 'signals' being sent out, compared to GB1.0.

Much less about those days of "make the truth your own" and "convince yourself", today is all about "whether you believe it or not - just do as you're told!"

Hmmm, what happened to that message? Most likely, it was just psychological conditioning to keep us busy and not think about what we really could be doing with our time.

I remember those tract campaigns. I think it's not only that, but it's a complete change of direction from the top.

Since about 2010 or so, GB2.0 has taken the Org in a much more bizarre direction, although admittedly some of it is more in line with today's living (eg: more effort online, less in printed material). But all the turnarounds with adopting televangelism through the Broadcasting, Disney-fication of Bible stories (Caleb and Sophia cartoons, Bible story animations), creepy 'Christian' music, ditching or amending previous teachings to bring in their own (many of which consolidate their position, eg: making only themselves the FDS), making the GB (and favoured 'helpers') high-profile 'stars', grabbing congregation finances and Kingdom Halls, 'updating' the NWT, removing what remained of any actual study or scholarship in publications and meetings and making them video by-the-numbers sessions, giving up any attempt to 'reason' on the ministry in favour of playing video clips and pointing to the website ... the list goes on of ways the new GB have torn up their predecessors' 'legacy' (flawed as it was).