Posts by Journeyman

30

Is it just me, or is Watchtower lowering its standards?

by ukpimo in

in the past, we used to hear talks on:.

avoiding sexual immorality and porn, as well as masturbation and other sexual practices.

why evolution cannot possibly be true.

Journeyman

I agree about the watering down of requirements and reduction of standards. However, I disagree about this bit:

What next? I cannot see Watchtower making any more significant changes for some time.

The current GB have shown, with the various and seemingly random changes of the last couple of years, they they are not averse to changing whatever they want to, whenever they feel like it. Including changing members of the GB itself.

If, as many suspect, most of their changes are driven by financial issues, a realisation they cannot control day-to-day behaviour any more, or a desire to cosy up to 'secular' authorities, then there's no reason to suspect there may not be other unexpected (or perhaps even long hoped-for) changes in the pipeline.

Recent GB talks have even continued to hint at more changes to come, and with "new blood" on the GB and the oldest members looking like they don't have long left, I think we can expect to see more "adjustments".

Whether any of them will be truly radical, and what effect they will have on the R&F and on numbers at meetings and doing ministry, remains to be seen though. The only aspects that won't change are:
1) Obey the GB without question
2) give money, and
3) put "kingdom interests" first (ie: do more for the organisation).

And of course, linked to 1) is accept all changes without dispute, because according to them we are "so close" to the end and "all of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not". (WT 15/11/2013)

2908

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

Journeyman

So, we've now had several days since three major headlines which our "boy" could've covered if he was really bothered.

1) The news about Ramapo construction going ahead;

2) The statistical 'highlights' from the 2023-4 JW service year report;

3) The news about the Archbishop of Canterbury resigning over CSA in the CofE church - a story which has thrown the spotlight back on the inadequacy of IICSA, the inquiry which he was involved in (and was only too keen to be seen at - and to share his opinions with the world - at the time).

Yet... not a peep on any of those so far. But he has done another 'voicemail' item (recycling content provided by his audience) and made a video about "all the beard jokes at the Annual Meeting". So that's great then.

51

2024 year Highlights: JWs hit 9 million Publishers

by Sanchy in

jw
friends

watchtower put out some highlights for the 2024 service year:.

average publishers: 8,828,124. peak publishers: 9,043,460. a 43.2 percent increase in "those who returned to jehovah", meaning 65,816 were reinstated.

baptized: 296,267. memorial attendance: 21,119,442. missing stat: number of partakers .. womp womp.

Journeyman

I wonder if they started counting 'inactive' publishers that faded. No hour requirement, not df or da, add 'em back as a publisher.

You still have to verify you've done some ministry each month, but now that's as easy as just messaging your group overseer and/or the congregation secretary to say "yes I did some ministry last month". No need to give specifics (unless you're a reg or aux pioneer, in which case you still have to report hours).

I've never heard of having to download a specific app to report it though. Not here in the UK anyway.

So even though known inactives would still not be counted, any JW previously 'approved' for ministry and active could claim they're still doing it even if they're not any more (or if they're only doing very token service like offering one person a tract at a bus stop once a month or something).

It would depend on the congregation you're in I suppose, and how 'zealous'(tm) your elders are. If it's an active congregation and the elders are strict, then you would probably be expected to be seen at groups and out with others on house to house work, and the elders might still chase you for 'evidence' of what you're doing. But in other places, probably not so much.

Vidiot is right in that the numbers the GB choose to report are becoming less and less meaningful, because they are becoming easier to fake or fudge. They are leaving out more telling figures, or changing the way they are calculated to make it impossible to track real trends - in a method not unlike the tricks governments use for things like unemployment and crime statistics, etc.

About the only figure which is still reliable is the Memorial attendance, but that is no indicator of future growth, since many people go to the Memorial every year but do nothing else - the so-called "missing millions"!

31

End within 2 years (again)

by road to nowhere in

an old elder friend from out of town stopped to see my ailing wife.

more than the locals do.

he said elder school emphasized 2 years and the existing body will be the leaders through persecution and tribulation.

Journeyman

I dont believe Lett is as stupid in real life as he acts in front of a camera or on stage.

Yeah, I tend to agree that Lett is not really the 'bumbling uncle' figure that he comes across as.as.

I suspect his money gives him more power and influence in the GB than many might realise.

I seem to remember someone posting a couple of years ago (on here, or maybe a repost from Reddit?) that they knew some of the Lett family and M.S. is/was actually quite a ruthless businessman and not at like the image he used to play up on JW broadcasts. Did I remember that correctly? It seems quite likely to me.

16

Ramapo project approved

by dropoffyourkeylee in

news is that the ramapo project has been approved by authorities and can move forward..

Journeyman

Oh, great. Yet another reason for WT to ask for more money.

And for the GB to release a string of more construction progress puff pieces in broadcasts for months to come, that claim that all this work is to "God's glory", while all the time promoting their own organisation with sweeping overhead shots of building sites, staged shots of men in suits gazing thoughtfully at laptops and blueprints, and gullible Witnesses smiling cheesily in hardhats and overalls as their free labour is exploited to build another future billion-dollar property sale. We've seen it all before too many times already!

The crazy thing is that the Org claim that the reason why it's ok to build such facilities now, supposedly so close to "the end", is that they can be used in the "new world" afterwards.

Yet NOWHERE in scripture are Christians told to prepare facilities for the end of the current "system of things". In fact, quite the opposite. Several verses warn that the best Christians should expect to escape with is their lives, and in verses like Matthew 6:19–21 Jesus warned against trying to "store up things on the earth". Isn't that exactly what building expensive facilities now with the idea of still using them after Armageddon is doing?

Who says you will get to use those facilities, even if Armageddon happens as you anticipate and you are fortunate enough to survive?

It all smacks of arrogance, and ties in with my thoughts in another thread that the Org is putting too much emphasis towards encouraging Witnesses to imagine very specific details of how they want to live in Paradise. Yet nowhere in that picture is respect shown for what the God and the King they supposedly worship will want instead. Of course, the GB presume to know that already, and to be doing "the will of the Father" (and the Son).

Jesus added: "Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also". He also warned his disciples in Mark Ch 13 against being obsessed with mere buildings, admiring the stones of the temple. It seems the WT Org have the same problem, being obsessed with their facilities - first the likes of Brooklyn and Mill Hill, now of places like Warwick, Chelmsford and soon, Ramapo. Obsessed with the earthly and the physical, rather than the spiritual.

90

What is Your Favorite WT Lie?

by Sea Breeze in

i would like to start a thread on lies that the watchtower and their reps have told.

surely we all have one or two that truly sticks out in our memories, no matter how much we would like to forget.

my favorite wt lie: the reason they don't want to release the name of the "scholars" who worked on the new world translation is because they do not want to accept "glory and honor" from others.

Journeyman

Another one is related to their refusal to "repent" for past errors and the severe effects they've had on thousands of the R&F over the decades, by simply referring to them as "clarifications of understanding" or some such.

Every time they do a screeching U-turn on a prediction or teaching, there is a noticeable absence of "Sorry, we messed up on that one" and no words of regret to Witnesses who have suffered, been disfellowshipped for disagreeing with what has now become their own teaching, or even died. Worse, they often even blame these ones for "allowing themselves to be misled" - effectively blaming them for doing what they were told they had to - for example over the 1975 debacle.

90

What is Your Favorite WT Lie?

by Sea Breeze in

i would like to start a thread on lies that the watchtower and their reps have told.

surely we all have one or two that truly sticks out in our memories, no matter how much we would like to forget.

my favorite wt lie: the reason they don't want to release the name of the "scholars" who worked on the new world translation is because they do not want to accept "glory and honor" from others.

Journeyman

Elders are simply affirming the decisions that have already been made in heaven.

Good one, Desirous.

Following on from that - that all appointed men are directly appointed by holy spirit. What, even the ones that turn out to have been hiding serious crimes while serving, and - in the case of WWII, the Cold War and more recent wars and totalitarian regimes - even when they turn out to have been spies for the military or government all along?

A ridiculous teaching, made up only to try and silence any questioning of appointed men and their (often all too human) decisions.

90

What is Your Favorite WT Lie?

by Sea Breeze in

i would like to start a thread on lies that the watchtower and their reps have told.

surely we all have one or two that truly sticks out in our memories, no matter how much we would like to forget.

my favorite wt lie: the reason they don't want to release the name of the "scholars" who worked on the new world translation is because they do not want to accept "glory and honor" from others.

Journeyman

How about that cringe-inducing, insincere line most GB members say at the end of each GB update:

"We love you all very much."

7

GB's latest prophecy is already wrong!!!

by nowwhat? in

at the annual meeting they said god will put it into the nations hearts to give their power to the united nations.

now that trump and the republicans have won, the united states will never give up their sovereignty to the u.n. !

trump has total disdain for the un, who and wef!

Journeyman

I agree with much of slim's earlier comment. It's certainly premature to claim the idea of a resurgence of the UN (or possibly a successor organisation) is dead just because Trump has been re-elected.

Four years is a short time in world history, and the UN is already nearly 80 years old (even older if you count a continuous line from the previous League of Nations as a model for world governments).

There are a few possible outcomes:

1) Little change. For all the fears of Trump opposers and expectations of Trump supporters, his time as President may not make much difference in the long term. Look back through history - even just since the year 2000 and think of things we thought would be massive world turning points - September 11, 2001, for example - and in fact, on the grand scheme of things, they have changed relatively little. That includes Trump's first term. The world didn't burn down, but nor was there happiness and unicorns for all. The UN is still there, its membership pretty much as it was before (with the same 5 UNSC members). It's still getting involved in world trouble spots but unable to stop wars, and still having its own members killed by fighting nations, armies and groups, with no real comeback or punishment for the offenders. (Not much use for a world-ruling organisation!)

2) Trump acts in a way that weakens the UN, maybe even directly undermining or removing it. Even if this happens, by the end of his term it may just lead to the formation of a new successor organisation - a UN 2.0 if you like. Maybe Trump himself will be responsible for starting it, as a replacement on new terms of reference to the old one.

3) Trump acts in a way - perhaps inadvertently - that strengthens the UN in the long term. It may even be that the way Trump carries out his international politics might strengthen the future of the UN.
a) Positive example: he succeeds in mediating in various conflicts - that would strengthen the UN in the long term, as the thing most likely to break up the UN (apart from direct action against it by the USA) is if the member states are so divided in warfare that they cannot sit round a table. If the world temperature for war is cooled down, then there is more room for the UN to work.
b) Negative example: he fails to resolve the various world conflicts, possibly making them worse - the world would eventually need an organisation like the UN even more after future bloodshed, to bring nations to the table in an attempt to bring "world peace", especially if the US administration is seen to fail badly at peace-brokering alone.

6

THE LONG ANTICIPATED INTERVIEW OF THE 2 NEW GB MEMBERS

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/dxyjupnklgi?si=2ux5wokg57xdpaob.

here we have the more indepth interview of the two new gb members jody jodele & jacob rumph and what jumps out to me is how borring they are, interestingly they don't go into detail when it dawned on them when they became anointed but they only go though their history and how they ended up in bethel.

as we already know jody jodele is the real estate expert that will help the gb capitalise on all this real estate money and jacob rumph sounds he spend alot of time as a missionary in south america, maybe he will provide a more insightful understanding of that continent to the gb since no indigenous jw will be part of the gb anytime soon.now what strikes to me as odd is the examples they both sited as the bible characters they want to relate more with, and no it is not jesus.. these modern-day governing body of jehovah's witnesses seems to be leaning heavily on old testament figures like moses and gideon as their role models instead of focusing on jesus, which speaks volumes about the kind of organization they’re leading.

Journeyman

So both are essentially "company men" - they've had no significant life outside the JW bubble, and Jelene went straight to Bethel at 19 and has been in and out of it since, so he's barely even had any life outside of the corporate environment of WTHQ. At least Rumph, as a missionary in different parts of the world, will have seen something of life outside.

It's no surprise then that they aspired to joining the GB as they have no other perspective, unlike many past GB members (and also past travelling overseers, branch workers and so on) some of whom were once even members of other churches.

Interesting point about the increasing emphasis on "Old Testament" judges and prophets in JW material lately, rather than focusing more on Jesus. It's true that we don't see much mention of the "OT" in the "NT", which does seem to indicate we shouldn't focus so much on the pre-Christian era.