Journeyman

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Posts by Journeyman

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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Journeyman

  I actually think he looks pretty good in this picture.
  

  More likely he'd be the kindly old uncle who lets you sit on his knee... then starts touching you in non-consensual ways.
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  21

  Joined an online meeting incognito

  by joey jojo in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  got a link for a zoom meeting and thought id share my experience about the mid-week meeting.. guessing about 100 - 120 in cong.. 50 on zoom, only 8 with cameras on - all elderly.

  watching from a detached point of view it's so obvious at how it is nothing but a glorified sales meeting, all designed to promote the org.

  inspirational videos about how everyone can/ should do more to help with projects, in particular how to look after the kingdom hall, complete with bar charts showing levels of achievement to aspire to.. interestingly, tonights book study is about alcohol..

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  Journeyman

  Guessing about 100 - 120 in cong.
  50 on zoom, only 8 with cameras on - all elderly.

  That tallies with my anecdotal experience, and shows another problem the org has created for itself.

  About 50% of the congs I know of are still not coming to meetings in person, and that's definitely more than the number who are genuinely housebound or who have debilitating conditions that prevent them from attending regularly (usually no more than 10-15 people in any congregation). Of those who do attend on Zoom, hardly any turn their cameras on now.
  

  The number of items at the midweek meeting promoting the org, it's own internal policies and procedures, and/or the GB have increased too, making it much less about Bible characters and principles as such, but more about worshipping an organisation and a body of men (even more than it used to be). Couple that with the dumbing down of the content from a few years ago when they scaled back any pretence at actually having a 'School', and you have a programme of content that few are likely to be motivated to come in person for, especially if they have to travel some distance, as they do in some countries, like the USA (not so much an issue here in the UK).

  I've also noticed that the Announcements section at the end is becoming longer, often with several letters from the 'branch' to read out, meaning the last item gets cut short and rushed through for the sake of reading them all. So much for the "spiritual food from Jehovah's table" being so important - obviously not more than procedural documentation coming from NY or Chelmsford!
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Journeyman

  
  

  Hmm... would you want this character coming down your chimney on the night of Dec 24/25 and emptying his sack?

  Ho. Ho. Ho.
  
  
  
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  17

  Can watchtower really continue with cart preaching?

  by Hellothere in

  1. social
  2. current

  can watchtower really continue with cart preaching?

  it has become like zoom.

  we're people attending zoom not wanting attend halls.

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  Journeyman

  I personally felt the cart was more effective than driving around knocking door where people were not interested or not at home. At lease at the cart, those interested will engage with you.
  

  Just as long as they ''legally can'', the carts will continue.
  

  I agree. It keeps witnesses occupied, is an easy way to count time, and it's easy for the org since they make it clear that individual publishers do it at their own risk.

  However, if that were ever successfully challenged in a court and a ruling made that the org were liable for what happens with the carts (trespass, nuisance, etc, for example) they would probably drop it - but possibly only in the jurisdiction where the judgement is made. That's the pattern they've shown in other cases, for example banning house-to-house records in the UK and EU due to GDPR, but not elsewhere.
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Journeyman

  So what has happened to https://lloydevans.info?

  Has LE had it taken down by complaining to the ISP?
  Was it hacked or was there some kind of attack made on it?
  
  It was a useful repository documenting the whole saga, so hopefully all that data is still available from other sources if it doesn't return.
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  42

  Young "Elders"

  by XBEHERE in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ever since the annual meeting last october and the letter to bodies of elders stating that "exceptional young men perhaps in their early 20's could qualify for appointment as elders.." it even states this in the updated elders manual!

  have any of you pimo's, pimq's, or those on here with family/friends still in hear of any young men being appointed as elders yet?

  i am talking 21, 22, 23, 24 etc.

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  Journeyman

  From what a friend of mine told me, many of the current older elders are still hesitant about it but CO's seem to pushing for training of younger ones. The GB wants this to happen.
  

  It's a strange choice. I can understand wanting a generation younger than 70s-80s to replace the ageing elder bodies, but trying to appoint a lot of "elders" from age groups as young as 20s (or even early 30s) to take the lead is a big risk. Not only do they not have much life experience and are more likely to lack spiritual (or any kind of) maturity, but they are also much more likely to be susceptible to slipping into 'wordly' ways, as they have grown up surrounded by modern attitudes to politics, higher education, religious criticism, gender and sexuality, entertainment, etc.
  
  Look at the current thread on here about Nicolas King, for example. Supposedly "exemplary" younger men who are still finding out who they are and exploring the world are more likely to stray from the path the GB would want than are older, more settled ones who tend to be vested in staying with the congregation especially if they have a wife, kids, etc. So if the current bodies of elders do cave in and start appointing a lot more very young men it could come back to bite the org in many ways, not just in alienating the more aged members of the congregations.
  

  But then, as some have said here before, the GB tend to be their own worst enemies, and shoot themselves in the foot a lot.
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Journeyman

  There's so much transparently wrong with Lloyd's 'reasoning' and the way he talks (writes) to someone who he supposedly cares about in that letter that it's at once startling and infuriating.

  To pick just one obvious thing: He has the audacity to accuse Dijana several times of 'dishing out diagnoses' and uses this to undermine her attempts to explain her feelings and to reason with him, but then he says near the end of the letter: "I believe to a large part you are controlled by hang-ups that have been instilled in you by your cult upbringing and societal norms regarding monogamy, but that’s not something I blame you for." And what qualifications do you have to make those 'diagnoses', you hypocrite?

  There is so much self-pitying justification and barely suppressed hatred towards his wife in there. He really is a sick and twisted individual.
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Journeyman

  I'd like to add to the suggestions for a concise 20min-or-so video that it should probably start by posing the question about what the "defamation campaign" is all about, something like:
  
  "Lloyd Evans has been a prominent personality in the ex-JW community for a number of years. Yet since 2022 he has lost a lot of supporters, and Lloyd himself has complained of a "defamation campaign" against him.

  What is this truth behind this alleged "defamation campaign"? Why did so many of his supporters leave him, including many members of the ex-JW community who had at one time or another worked with Lloyd on producing content against WT policies and in support of CSA victims?"
  
  Then go in chronological order starting with LE's Jan 2022 livestream and what immediately led up to it (his comments to Kim/Bob and the messages with Dijana, etc) through to the recent begging, then summarise at the end a timeline of the other examples of his unstable behaviour in the past - his history in Manchester, CoC, intimidation of others, attitude on forums, YT and Twitter, etc - with links to more info, based on the pages and screenshots that are already out there. That will keep it focused and give viewers a sense of how he has repeatedly contradicted himself and tried to change the narrative over time.

  It will be a challenge to condense it down, but slim is right, it's important to be succinct; it's also important to keep it factual and avoid over-emotive statements.
  
  It's also important to move quickly with this, while his recent begging and claims of "defamation" are still fresh in people's minds, and those patrons who have contributed have only just signed up.
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  32

  Is the ministry really taken seriously by most JWs?

  by XBEHERE in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what say you?.

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  Journeyman

  As I said before, I do think the cart witnessing itself was not a bad idea, but the way the org has implemented it is totally ineffective, telling publishers not to engage passers-by unless they are first approached.

  When it was first introduced (here in Europe at least), publishers could offer literature held in their hands, and could engage passers-by in conversation. That seems much more appealing (to those who might be interested, of course) and more potentially effective. Every single street preacher or vendor offering anything in public will approach people, rather than just passively stand around.

  However, the org soon changed the 'direction' on how to do this, and now it is much less effective. Supposedly, they did not want the witnesses to seem like just free paper distributors or those intrusive charity volunteers you get on the streets (they're often known as "chuggers" here in the UK - short for "charity muggers" due to their persistent attempts to approach people asking for donations). Although I can see the point of that, they could've just introduce more careful guidance about how to do it. Instead, they basically told witnesses to stop holding literature and not to approach people.

  I think there was an ulterior motive. During the months when the original way of doing things was in place, I know congregations were placing far more magazines than they did before the carts were introduced (I mean hundreds more), and many were enjoying conversations. I suspect the org heard about this from branches and got worried about the cost of printing additional copies to cover the demand. It usually comes down to money in the end. If they were really interested in "spreading the good news", then surely they should be pleased about that? They're always quoting scriptures about "liberally sowing seeds because you don't know where they will grow", etc. Even if many copies were discarded, the point is supposed to be about "reaching people".

  Instead, they issued orders to make the trolley work far more passive and, as usual, killed what little 'joy' publishers might experience in their ministry. Now it's exactly as you see in that picture: standing around looking bored, hands in pockets or just chatting with the other witnesses around (or staring at their phone). Also, those ones in Barcelona are doing what most witnesses do now which puts people off approaching - all crowded too close to the carts. Even if someone were interested, they would probably be put off by this line of 'cart bodyguards' staring at them as they walk up.
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  3. 
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  Journeyman

  I see our "friend" has uploaded a new video...
  
  
  
  I've not watched because, frankly... I couldn't care less.
  But someone who wants to take one for the team might want to watch it and update us on the latest dribble to emit from Mr LE...