Posts by Journeyman

136

Colossian 1:16 - "all OTHER things"

by aqwsed12345 in

due to their apparent theological bias, the watchtower shamelessly inserts the word "other" in order to "make room" for their own idea that jesus is also a created being.

it is clear that jehovah's witnesses try to avoid having to admit that christ created everything because "the one who constructed all things is god" (hebrews 3:4).

instead, the society teaches that "christ was the only one created by god," and that then he "created everything else with jehovah.

Journeyman

I find Trinitarians as obstinate and dogmatic as Jehovah's Witnesses with ZERO knowledge of the history around it.

It always amazes me the desperate lengths trinitarians will go to to try and explain away all the numerous scriptures that contradict their theory, with the most convoluted reasonings and sophistry that they can muster.

Often, the best they can 'prove' is a duality - that certain verses imply the Father and Son share some kind of common 'nature', origin or existence - however in those scriptures there is no reference to, or indication of, an equal third party that could be assumed to be the triune part (the Spirit).

Despite all the centuries of convoluted theorising, the simple fact is that there is no support for the concept of the trinity in scripture from an honest reading of the text, nor from the history of the Jews and first century Christians.

Scripture spells out several clear and understandable concepts in contradiction to the tangled theories of the trinity:

The Father is a single conscious being who has always existed;
The Son is a separate conscious being who at one time did not exist, but was created by the Father and spent an unknown length of time alongside the Father before coming to earth in human form, then dying (ceasing to exist) and then being raised back to life by his Father, returning to his side;
The Spirit is a force or energy, not a conscious being, which can be used to carry out the Father's will, and can be shared with others.

Even the basic relationship by which God has chosen to identify himself and Jesus in scripture - that of a Father with a Son - gives a clear message which is easily understandable to every generation of mankind, not some confused triad or single triune entity.

23

All the Old JW Acquaintances Passing Away

by StephaneLaliberte in

yesterday, my dad told me an older sister passed away.

she wasn't too old (in her 60s), but i knew her 30 years ago and haven't seen her in 15 years; the main reason being that i faded 10 years ago.. yesterday, i seriously considered attending the funeral and catch-up with old jws i used to know.

after thinking it over, i decided against it.

Journeyman

I agree with slim and SouthCentral advising those who are unsure to attend a funeral if the deceased meant something to you. It's a chance to pay your last respects and you may regret it forever after if you don't go.

I zoom attended a very large memorial earlier in the year. I was super close to the family for years, and my JW family bent over backwards to make me aware of the memorial. It wasn't too bad and I'm not sorry I "attended" for the reason above.

On the other end of the spectrum, Aude and I attended a KH memorial a month ago for a relative of another poster from here. She said she could use the support and we were there for her. OMGoodness, it was truly a DREADFUL talk. Just dreadful.

Dagney, you've raised an interesting question. It's curious that given how important funeral talks are (and by the nature of things, how often they have to be held), there seems to be such variety in the quality of them. Especially when you think how tightly the org controls the content and tone of every other meeting.

Like you, I've been to some funeral talks that have been excellent - well-balanced and respectful, with enough time in the talk and information in the programme devoted to the individual and their life, not just a commercial for JWdom. On the other hand, I've also been at the two bad types of funeral talk: 1) out-of-the-box generic advert for JW life and the org with little mention of the deceased, and 2) dull as ditchwater coverage of the funeral basics from a speaker who clearly knew nothing about the person they are talking about.

Isn't it odd that there is such a wide difference when the org usually controls all other talks so tightly? Admittedly, if they were to tighten up how funeral talks are delivered, they'd probably end up making them ALL like the two bad examples above, so I suppose I should be glad they haven't done that. But on reflection, it seems strange.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Journeyman

So has Lloyd lost the studio for real this time?

I believe he did say he was giving up "Ramacro" even if his money situation improved.

I doubt he will return to the UK. There's too much 'history' back here for him, and it would be much harder for him to make a living.

It seems from his recent attempts to socialise at bars and comedy venues, etc, that he's trying to widen his social circle in Croatia, which suggests he's in no hurry to leave.

Also, if he stays in Croatia he will still have access to his daughters, and it will be easier for him to continue to exert control and pressure on Dijana, which I'm sure he will try to do.

8

Miserable week ahead for witness kids in England-The Coronation

by Mit123 in

i feel sorry for witness kids this week.

schools going crazy with the coronation in england.

witness won’t be allowed to participate in a harmless tradition that whatever you think of the monarchy will be a lot of fun..

Journeyman

To be fair, I'm not sure it will be all that difficult. After all, there are plenty of people of all ages and backgrounds who are not interested in the coronation, either because they're not impressed by Charles specifically, or they're against the monarchy as a whole.

There is plenty of open criticism and dissent about the coronation, and I'm sure there will be lots of families avoiding the whole thing. For example, the BBC has an article on its home page right now called "Five tips to avoid the coronation" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65456345

I would imagine it's much more difficult to avoid Christmas and Easter because they are far more celebrated, even by people who are not religious, and also any pro-LGBT or any pro-military occasions (such as Remembrance Day), because ignoring or opposing these is widely disapproved of, whereas avoiding the coronation will be quite accepted by many.

45

Advice to reduce hours earn less and spend more time on the ministry

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

the advice to reduce work and earn less to spend more time preaching has not aged well.. the cost of living crisis means many have more going out on necessities than they have coming in.. so many asked their employer to reduce their hours and refused promotion only to see their colleagues go up the ladder when they stayed lowly position with rubbish jobs thinking the end will be here soon.

next week midweek meeting is all about preparing for an economic crisis.. they say have a go bag and new advice for all jws to store food and water at home and grow a vegetable garden, i kid you not.

this is the new direction..

Journeyman

To be fair, the advice in that meeting workbook for next week's meeting is fine in itself - lots of 'secular' online articles about how to cope with the credit crunch and economic difficulty suggest the same things, including reducing outgoings, using less energy and growing your own food if possible.

However, what is glaring in its omission is advice to try and save money not just by reducing spending, but also by accumulating savings (deposits, bonds, investments, pension, whatever). I don't think I've ever seen the org seriously recommend saving money in this way, even though it's one of the most obvious ways to hedge against financial hardship. I presume it's because it goes against their idea of working as little as possible and spending more of your time on the org, even though it's a principle supported by plenty of scriptures if the org was willing to use them that way.

Edit: I see from the WT online library that they used to mention the word "savings" positively in articles (mainly from the 70s and 80s), but in recent years most of the references have only been negative, eg:
Daniel and Miriam thought that by using their savings, they could stay in Panama for about eight months... When their savings ran out, however, the couple’s joy turned to sorrow. - "The Joy of Leading a Simple Life" w17 May p. 30 - The Watchtower (Study) 2017

There is an Awake article from 2011 "Why Save Rather Than Spend?" which mentions having a savings account and the usual ideas of spending less, keeping debt low and yes - growing your own food! It even mentions what it calls "legitimate debt", suggesting taking out a loan for a specific practical asset such as a house or car - unusual for the org, to my knowledge. But predictably, the article does not mention the options of overtime or seeking a promotion or higher paid job in order to save more.

12

A new Tony Morris thread: Question

by XBEHERE in

i am not trying to hijack the already well commented on thread on this subject .

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5068920948523008/breaking-news-anthony-morris-iii-no-longer-serving-on-governing-body.

however i do have a question: for pimo's, pimq's, and those who still go to meetings in person fairly regularly... is anyone still talking about this?

Journeyman

In my experience, no-one is talking about this any more. There was a brief flurry of enquiry in a rather low-key way when the announcement was made, but it's all gone quiet.

I think a lot buy into the excuse of "ill health" and are happy to leave it at that. Remember, many in the congregations have not been baptised for more than a few years, so have no knowledge of past expulsions from the old GB, and the org is never very public about the history of what went on behind closed doors in NY (or any other branch for that matter). And those who have been around for a long while but are fully "in" don't question what they're told.

I think someone commented on the other thread that most JWs are not really that bothered - although the GB are in their faces so much these days due to videos and broadcasts, they're not very inquisitive about pushing below the surface of what the org tells them, and are happy to carry on with their everyday mundane stuff as if nothing has happened.

12

Weasel Word Phrase--The Bible Does Not Say...but

by blondie in

jw
friends

the bible does not say—the weasel word phrase that bugs me the most.

note that though the wts says this, it then proceeds to add :.

after jesus’ birth, why did joseph and mary remain in bethlehem instead of returning home to nazareth?.

Journeyman

The Bible does not say

It's funny how when it suits, the org will quote 1 Corinthians 4:6 "Do not go beyond the things that are written", and they are quick to warn against 'speculation', yet they are more than happy to frequently do it with the examples blondie mentions above (and many more).

Of course, there are circumstances where it's fine to mention some possible scenarios to stimulate thought or enquiry ("it could be x or it could be y") - we all do it in life when we're trying to work out possibilities. The hypocrisy lies in: 1) acting as though the "what ifs" you come up with are more certain than those from other people when based on the same evidence or information, and 2) judging others negatively or criticising them for doing the same thing you yourself are doing.

17

Charles the Third and the Two-Headed Beast

by Anony Mous in

i was reading an article about the pomp and circumstance around the first coronation in nearly a century.. made me think of the revelation book (the red one, not the bible) and the picture of the two headed beast with a sword and if i have some time today i will see if i can’t find it and age it a bit, it seems the sword is a bit dull and the two heads are now both octogenarians with severe dementia, kind of funny to see that instead of “swift judgment” we’ve come to internal decay.. what do you canadians, english, scots, irish and australians think about your new leadership?.

Journeyman

Upon entry into the EEC, Britain thereby abandoned trade with the Commonwealth.

This is a good point, and one completely ignored by Remoaners, who are either too young to know, or couldn't care less, about how serious a betrayal that was to countries that had stood by Britain for decades, including through both world wars.

The sad thing is that while Brexit was a good opportunity to rebuild and strengthen relations with the Commonwealth, noone in power in the UK took the initiative to do so. The time to do it was before the death of the Queen, while there was still the goodwill from her status as head, but this opportunity was wasted. Even today, Commonwealth Day is barely recognised in the UK, and the Commonwealth Institute - which was a centre celebrating the organisation and its members in Kensington, London - was closed in 2016. Shockingly short-sighted.

Now, with Charles as king, there is little hope of garnering the same level of international goodwill and cooperation again.

18

JWs Still Attending on Zoom

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

another topic based on a conversation with a friend living near warwick (i talked to him over the weekend).

he said that cong's in and around bethel, including his, are slowly starting to see an uptick with people attending in person his cong is pretty much 75%+ in person.

however there are many that still use zoom as a fall back.

Journeyman

Probably closing their KH and making them drive inconveniently further.

Wouldn't that make the Zoom situation even worse?

The only thing I could see them doing was suggested by someone else previously: withdraw the right to connection and make it something subject to 'approval' by the elders, for 'genuine' cases of sickness or infirmity.

The problem with that is, once someone has the code, they could continue connecting even after they've recovered. Or they might share the code with others in the congregation. So the elders would have to keep changing the login details. It would create a lot more hassle for local congregations.

17

Charles the Third and the Two-Headed Beast

by Anony Mous in

i was reading an article about the pomp and circumstance around the first coronation in nearly a century.. made me think of the revelation book (the red one, not the bible) and the picture of the two headed beast with a sword and if i have some time today i will see if i can’t find it and age it a bit, it seems the sword is a bit dull and the two heads are now both octogenarians with severe dementia, kind of funny to see that instead of “swift judgment” we’ve come to internal decay.. what do you canadians, english, scots, irish and australians think about your new leadership?.

Journeyman

In summary, to the point about the "two heads" and the state of the US/UK relationship, one of the JW interpretations is that the feet of the statue of Daniel of "iron mixed with clay" symbolises 'hard' power not mixing well with the 'clay' of people (the population). Frankly, that interpretation is looking quite accurate these days.

Both the US and UK are struggling to keep their people engaged in the 'system' - suspicion, cynicism, divisions and negativity about politics and our leaders are like never before: COVID and vaccines; conspiracy theories; race, migration and national identity; fears about laws around protest, data collection and surveillance - the grievances go on and on. And while both the US and UK are on the surface "free democracies", they're just as willing to use blackmail (such as sanctions) or "hard" power (invasion, bombing, etc) against their enemies and even turn their laws against their own populations if they feel it necessary.

Both countries are still 'active' and both are still allies (although the relationship has been strained by Obama, Trump and now Biden) and it's not likely that will suddenly change, but they're both far less stable and united than they've been for a generation, with much less confidence about their place in the world. A weakening of the monarchy in the UK (and the fallout from the rift with Harry & Meghan) is part of that bigger picture of tensions and divisions.