559 and counting (down)... drip, drip...
Journeyman
JoinedPosts by Journeyman
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11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
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136
Colossian 1:16 - "all OTHER things"
by aqwsed12345 indue to their apparent theological bias, the watchtower shamelessly inserts the word "other" in order to "make room" for their own idea that jesus is also a created being.
it is clear that jehovah's witnesses try to avoid having to admit that christ created everything because "the one who constructed all things is god" (hebrews 3:4).
instead, the society teaches that "christ was the only one created by god," and that then he "created everything else with jehovah.
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Journeyman
Ok, I'll bite for just one more time. Let's forget the academics and other human philosophies for a second (since they ultimately boil down to "he said... she said" debates in the end).
At 1 Corinthians 15, Paul speaks of the importance of the resurrection of the Christ, of the first Adam and "the last Adam", and of fleshly and spiritual bodies and how God chooses to clothe ones in one body or the other as it pleases him.
For anyone rejecting the view of Jesus as a completely separate being from the Father, how could Jesus become an equivalent of Adam if he is co-eternal and part of an immutable Godhead?
Adam was non-existent before being created from the dust. He had before him the risk of dying and ceasing to exist again (returning to dust) if he failed God and chose to sin (which he did).
If Jesus has always existed as a part of a Godhead, he could not possibly be a parallel to Adam. How could his test in the flesh work? If he had failed by choosing to sin and then died in the flesh, he would simply have returned to being that part of the Godhead (or possibly even continued to be so in one form while also still in the flesh - depending on one's interpretation of how this Godhead is supposed to be).
However, because he was, in fact, a separate being, created by the Father first in spirit form, then transformed by the Father into flesh, his failure could have had the same consequences as that of Adam's - complete destruction. It also makes his success more directly relatable to all humankind (1 Peter 2:21), proving that they too could choose to be obedient if raised back to the same perfect state as Adam (and Jesus in the flesh) had been.
The parallel and symbolic importance is clear:
The first Adam was a physical created son of God who proved unfaithful as a father to mankind and thus condemned his offspring to death, the "last Adam" (Jesus) a spiritual created son of God who then took on the same fleshly mantle but who proved it was possible to be faithful while in the flesh, and also thus became the adoptive father to all whom Adam had condemned to death (and hence became the promised "Eternal Father" - Isaiah 9:6 - often confused with God).
Indeed, at death Jesus ceased to exist, being "among the dead" until the "third day" (Luke 24:21,46; John 20:9), until his Father raised him up (John 10:17,18; Acts 2:24,32) back to the flesh (John 20:17), then later he returned to the spirit world (Luke 24:51, Acts 1:9). How could he be "among the dead" if he was a co-eternal part of a Godhead?
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136
Colossian 1:16 - "all OTHER things"
by aqwsed12345 indue to their apparent theological bias, the watchtower shamelessly inserts the word "other" in order to "make room" for their own idea that jesus is also a created being.
it is clear that jehovah's witnesses try to avoid having to admit that christ created everything because "the one who constructed all things is god" (hebrews 3:4).
instead, the society teaches that "christ was the only one created by god," and that then he "created everything else with jehovah.
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Journeyman
Slim and Earnest, I admire your efforts on this thread and I was almost tempted to contribute further a couple of times, but as I intimated back on page 2 (three days ago - and more than three pages ago - that's more than a page a day that this has been going on) trying to reason with entrenched trinitarians is futile. It doesn't matter whether you use scripture, the writings of historians, philosophers and early church fathers, or simple logic. It's like butting your head against a wall.
It's like trying to reason with a Muslim over how Jesus can be God's Son without God needing sexual relations. Or, for that matter, trying to persuade a PIMI JW that the GB might actually be wrong about something! An exercise that ends only in frustration, circular arguments and more entrenchment, padded out by episodes of waffle and contradictory or confused thinking.
In my more active days of being a JW on the doors, I would have tried to worry away at controversial 'bones' like the trinity, Islam's view of Jesus and so on, but today I can't be doing with the futility of butting heads like that anymore.
Still - 10 out of 10 for effort! -
11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
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Journeyman
The fact they are still dropping makes a good case that he has exhausted his donation pool and manipulated many who weren’t inclined to donate into doing so because he threatened to leave.
Several who commented on his begging video stated that they would donate to him even though they could barely afford to do so. I really hope those patrons especially save their money for their own needs, not to prop up a lazy grifter.
I notice that his numbers have dropped another one from 562 to 561 since Thisismein1972 posted 9 hours ago.
I also see that last week he cancelled the promised monthly Zoom call for his second-highest tier of patrons, seemingly with the excuse that he was still in process of moving from 'Ramacro'.
Not being a member (naturally) I can't see the rest of what he wrote, nor what the 4 comments in response were. But if he has not rescheduled that monthly Zoom call then that's already a promise broken, and not just for the lowest tier payers but ones who are paying him more than £21.50 a month (about €25 or $27)!
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11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
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Journeyman
Another option is that he explained that what Evans wanted was folly, but Evans insisted on taking action ... And if you have an unreasonable client who pays on time, why turn down easy money?
As the old saying goes, "a fool and his money are soon parted" - especially if they are narcissistic and the money is being spent for self-justification.
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11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
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Journeyman
It’s a safe bet he’s already written Novosel a few “Dijana style” emails complaining about the slowness of the case and asking why this or that hasn’t happened yet.
The idea of LE trying to bully and intimidate a firm of lawyers is hilarious, but would be true to type.
If there's one group of people it's never a good idea to bully and annoy, it's lawyers! (Along with cops and the military, of course)
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8
Miserable week ahead for witness kids in England-The Coronation
by Mit123 ini feel sorry for witness kids this week.
schools going crazy with the coronation in england.
witness won’t be allowed to participate in a harmless tradition that whatever you think of the monarchy will be a lot of fun..
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Journeyman
When the old Queen was crowned I had just started school and we all lined up to get a Coronation Mug and replica anointing spoon.
Seventy years have passed since the last coronation. The UK - and the world - is very different. Millions in this country have no interest in the whole edifice of monarchy, or the pomp and ceremony of a coronation. Many are even openly hostile to the concept. Younger generations born here, along with the many immigrants we now have from all over the world, have no loyalty, understanding of, or interest in, the history or significance of royalty. Heck, many of them don't have any loyalty or respect for any aspect of this country.
As a result, despite all the media coverage there will be, there is not the peer pressure there would have been in past decades to fall in step with such an event.
The Coronation makes me feel miserable anyway.
The same for me, but for a very different reason: it emphasises the loss of the Queen and the accession of a much inferior figurehead, and I feel it marks the beginning of much more decline for the nation and public wrangling over the future of the UK in the years ahead.
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11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
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Journeyman
Did he say “heroine”?
He can't stop thinking about women! Presumably because he's controlled by his penis...
"But you can get addicted to it and it doesn't do you any good" - like adultery with prostitutes, eh, Lloyd?
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773
Breaking News: Anthony Morris III no longer serving on the Governing Body
by WingCommander inthis has been announced on the jw's official website, in the "jw news" section.
this is not a joke.
anthony moron da turd is out as a gluttonous body member!
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Journeyman
There were a number of references to alcohol in the weeks after the news of AMIII broke, although a couple of them were in the scheduled midweek meeting, so would've been planned before the situation arose. Unless, of course, the rest of the GB had been planning to oust AMIII some time in advance...
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136
Colossian 1:16 - "all OTHER things"
by aqwsed12345 indue to their apparent theological bias, the watchtower shamelessly inserts the word "other" in order to "make room" for their own idea that jesus is also a created being.
it is clear that jehovah's witnesses try to avoid having to admit that christ created everything because "the one who constructed all things is god" (hebrews 3:4).
instead, the society teaches that "christ was the only one created by god," and that then he "created everything else with jehovah.
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Journeyman
I find Trinitarians as obstinate and dogmatic as Jehovah's Witnesses with ZERO knowledge of the history around it.
It always amazes me the desperate lengths trinitarians will go to to try and explain away all the numerous scriptures that contradict their theory, with the most convoluted reasonings and sophistry that they can muster.
Often, the best they can 'prove' is a duality - that certain verses imply the Father and Son share some kind of common 'nature', origin or existence - however in those scriptures there is no reference to, or indication of, an equal third party that could be assumed to be the triune part (the Spirit).
Despite all the centuries of convoluted theorising, the simple fact is that there is no support for the concept of the trinity in scripture from an honest reading of the text, nor from the history of the Jews and first century Christians.
Scripture spells out several clear and understandable concepts in contradiction to the tangled theories of the trinity:
- The Father is a single conscious being who has always existed;
- The Son is a separate conscious being who at one time did not exist, but was created by the Father and spent an unknown length of time alongside the Father before coming to earth in human form, then dying (ceasing to exist) and then being raised back to life by his Father, returning to his side;
- The Spirit is a force or energy, not a conscious being, which can be used to carry out the Father's will, and can be shared with others.
Even the basic relationship by which God has chosen to identify himself and Jesus in scripture - that of a Father with a Son - gives a clear message which is easily understandable to every generation of mankind, not some confused triad or single triune entity.