Journeyman

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Posts by Journeyman

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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Journeyman

  God only knows why she would speak to lloyd about CSA related matters

  Presumably she doesn't know who he really is and is unaware of his history. That's usually how he gets people to invite him - like with Andrew Gold.
  
  
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  57

  JWs unrecognisable compared to my grandfathers time

  by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  my grandfather who has been dead for 37 years would not recognise the borganisation today.

  he would turn in his grave if he knew the end didn’t come by 2023.. back in the 1970s he really believed in the 75 thing.

  he was so disappointed and almost blamed everyone else why the end didn’t come.

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  Journeyman

  FedUpJW - point taken about the WT study. It's true that it totally depends on the kind of study conductor you have in your congregation and whether you have enough people there who actually bother to put the answers in their own words rather than parrot what's on the page or waffle on for several minutes.
  

  But ExBethelite was saying that nothing much on the meeting schedule requires real effort by elders anymore and I was basically agreeing. The only meeting assignments that need any kind of effort for an elder to do properly are the public talk and WT study - the rest can be skimmed.

  Of course, it's by no means guaranteed the WT study will be done properly, and probably the majority of study conductors don't know how to do them well or can't be bothered any more.
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  57

  JWs unrecognisable compared to my grandfathers time

  by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  my grandfather who has been dead for 37 years would not recognise the borganisation today.

  he would turn in his grave if he knew the end didn’t come by 2023.. back in the 1970s he really believed in the 75 thing.

  he was so disappointed and almost blamed everyone else why the end didn’t come.

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  Journeyman

  the joke is how many elders does it take to change a light bulb. None they get a MS to do it and tell him it’s a privilege 🤣

  Love it! 🤣

  ExBethelite is so right. At the meetings, elders do little more than top and tail video clips these days. Even the treasures talk is largely directly from the outline in the meeting workbook - all the main points and scriptures are there.

  Apart from the public talk (which of course doesn't require any audience interaction), the only item that still requires some proper preparation and attention is the WT study, and that's usually only taken by one or two of the elders (usually the CoBE or one of the other service committee).

  (Proverbs 13:12) Expectation postponed makes the heart sick...

  To be accurate, Jesus was not the one who's "postponed" the expectation.
  

  He never said "It'll be 1875! Oh no, wait it'll be 1914! No, hold on, it's 1975... etc"

  In fact, as you point out, he made it clear that we should not be trying to set a specific time for it. Funny how all these men from Russell right down to today's GB2.0 seemed to completely miss the point there!

  
  
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  57

  JWs unrecognisable compared to my grandfathers time

  by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  my grandfather who has been dead for 37 years would not recognise the borganisation today.

  he would turn in his grave if he knew the end didn’t come by 2023.. back in the 1970s he really believed in the 75 thing.

  he was so disappointed and almost blamed everyone else why the end didn’t come.

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  Journeyman

  I would add to Journeyman’s list the withdrawal of the Tuesday Group Book Study

  Wow. Of course, how could I forget that one? That was a big blow to the bros and sisters.
  

  For years, the society had said that the book study group was the main contact point for every witness in the congregation - they even speculated that when the "great tribulation" came, it would be through the book study that everyone would be kept in touch with one another and sustained.

  Then the GB2.0 just swept it away (along with all their other changes), claiming some nonsense about saving brothers the travelling time and 'freeing' an evening for personal and family study, when everyone knew it was really 1) to avoid liability in case of anything bad happening in a private home, and perhaps even more 2) because they were paranoid that small groups were not teaching the party line 'correctly'.

  It's true that the quality of teaching in the groups was very variable, depending on how capable the elder or servant taking them was and whether the group had any dominant or overbearing personalities in it, but as BluesBrother said, the groups were invaluable in JW life (where there are few enough opportunities to socialise) for giving all the chance to chat and have a drink and snack together afterwards.

  The org still pays lip service to it in that every witness is still supposed to be part of a 'group' with a 'group overseer', but the arrangement is a shell of its former self and has little meaning beyond the Saturday morning field service group, while the 'book study' has become just another dumbed down video-playback show as part of the midweek meeting at the Hall. Officially, it's called the "congregation bible study" but practically noone calls it that because there's very little study of the bible involved (even less now than in the days when they had verse-by-verse considerations of bible books) - it's more a "reading of a book/brochure written by the WTBTS".
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  57

  JWs unrecognisable compared to my grandfathers time

  by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  my grandfather who has been dead for 37 years would not recognise the borganisation today.

  he would turn in his grave if he knew the end didn’t come by 2023.. back in the 1970s he really believed in the 75 thing.

  he was so disappointed and almost blamed everyone else why the end didn’t come.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Journeyman

  My grandfather who has been dead for 37 years would not recognise the borganisation today.

  Thirty-seven years? Heck, the organisation is barely recognisable from as recently as the mid-1990s!

  • JW Televangelist Broadcasting channel
  • GB members (and 'helpers') now given celebrity status; obedience and worship of GB ramped up
  • JW website
    
  • Old WT logo almost completely superseded by "golden calf" JW ORG logo stuck on every Hall.
  • 'Revised' NWT
  • Multiple songbook changes
  • No paper Bibles or publications at meetings - all tablets and phones
  • Disney-fied Bible videos, including Caleb & Sophia cartoons
  • TV screens at Halls and routine video segments in the meetings
  • Awful sub-christian-pop-rock 'original' songs
  • Removal of roles like District Overseer, Magazine Servant
  • Pioneer hours cut drastically
  • Theocratic School scrapped and replaced with watered down meeting assignments
  • Ministry reduced to bite-sized presentations, removal of Reasoning book and other more substantial tools
    
  • Watchtower and Awake mags drastically reduced in size (pages) and number of issues
  • Public witnessing carts/trolleys introduced, books and more 'weighty' placements removed for just tracts, magazines and playing video clips
  • NY Bethel, London Bethel both relocated and previous locations sold off
  • Printing operations scaled right back; European operations merged so all printing now done in Germany
  • Major congregation mergers, hall closures and sell-offs worldwide
  • FDS now just the GB, not all anointed
    
  • "This generation" now 'overlapping'
    
  • Numerous other beliefs 'clarified' - compare this list of just how many more changes have happened since 1995 than were made before then! (remove the b from borg) https://wol.jw.borg/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200277174

  ... and I bet there are more I've forgotten!
  
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Journeyman

  We've hit a bit of a snag getting our Friday afternoon convention rebuttal finished...

  Of course, producing a rebuttal video for 1/6 of the convention programme is so complex that it required his whole team (ahem) an additional 4-5 days to put together. (Not like he hasn't already had weeks to prepare in advance, after he begged asked for high-res copies of the convention just over a month ago).

  Good to know that the Lloyd Evans Channel is working so hard to give value to his paying members...
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  93

  Regional Convention Attendance

  by XBEHERE in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  elder friend of mine texted me asking what my rc attendance was 2 weeks ago (family and i streamed it since wife is not well).

  he told me that his rc in the jersey city assembly hall last weekend was low.

  co told them that around 2600 were the total from 16+ congs that were assigned.

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  Journeyman

  I know! In terms of distance, that's almost the equivalent of assigning the whole of England to one venue!

  As someone who lives in the UK (which is only about 500 miles by 300 miles in size) distances across the USA and Canada blow my mind. It's no wonder so many Witnesses in those countries resent all the Hall closures.
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  55

  "Independent" Scotland joke!

  by BoogerMan in

  1. social
  2. current

  humza yousaf, scotland's first minister, said: "scotland, i'm afraid, is suffering because we are not independent.

  " https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-66012834.

  try telling that to scotland's tourists and many island communities: the ferry services are dying month by month, and the two new overdue & over-budget ferries justify a serious legal/criminal enquiry.. any bunch of incompetents who can't provide a small country with a ferry service and a legally binding contract to build 2 new boats - having controlled scotland since 2007 - has no credibility in claiming they could run a country!.

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  Journeyman

  But if you are arguing that Scotland has no right to choose independence then I don’t think there is any basis for discussion here.

  Slim - Yes, I'm beginning to feel there is no basis for discussion here - but more because you're clearly not bothering to read my posts. I know I don't always write concisely, but please pay me the respect of reading what I write before commenting! Back on page 1 I said this (in part):

  "...of course a referendum cannot be put off indefinitely in a democracy, but it would be massively wasteful and damaging to the whole of the Union IMO, and so that is why I would prefer to see desire for the whole thing fade among Scots themselves..."

  None of your whataboutery over the EU works.

  My "whataboutery"? I wasn't the one who said "were you in favour of France or Germany having a vote on whether the UK should be allowed to break up the European Union", bringing in a separate subject.
  

  It seems LoveUni's response above has caught you out in the false comparison, so I'll leave that there.

  Your comment about "control" again shows you clearly didn't read my last post commenting on how mutually deep the union between Scotland and England goes - it's not just a set of legislation or a fancy flag, and it's not about being a "vassal state", a phrase you used earlier. Perhaps you will understand my point better if I compare it to breaking up a marriage (Scotland leaving England) vs a tenant leaving a group of flatmates (UK leaving the EU) - of course both arrangements are by consent, but the first is much deeper and more meaningful than the other, and breaking it up is potentially much more far-reaching and damaging (to both/all parties) than the other, therefore should be considered far more carefully, which I see little evidence of from the clamour for repeated IndyRefs by the Nats, who seem to be chasing a nebulous dream of 'freedom' at any price.

  Your next piece of "whataboutery" (see, I can play that game too) in bringing in Ireland fails to recognise that religious differences between England and Ireland were far more deep-seated and antagonistic and that the union of the two had been less stable and considerably more fraught with trouble in the 'recent' past (ie: the latter century or so of mutual relations) than that between Scotland and England. I don't ever recall Scots Nats occupying a post office in Sauchiehall Street and the British army enforcing martial law across Glasgow!

  You've not addressed any of the practical and economic points others have raised either about budgets, currency, trade, customs and border policies, etc - something which I haven't commented on yet because personally, I think the mutual damage to all the constituent parts of the UK by Scotland leaving is more existential and far deeper than just those practicalities, although they of course are complicated enough.

  On most subjects I often agree with your points and look forward to reading your posts, but on this one I can see your mind is set on repeating your mantra of "Scotland has the right to choose independence if it wishes" (something noone on here has disputed, with the possible exception of LoveUni who proposes a UK-wide vote) and various appeals to emotion by talking about things like "control", "insult", "regret", "colony", "captive state" and so on. It's obviously something you feel deeply personally about, and that's fine, but clearly none of the issues raised by others so far are registering with you, which is making debate rather pointless.
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  93

  Regional Convention Attendance

  by XBEHERE in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  elder friend of mine texted me asking what my rc attendance was 2 weeks ago (family and i streamed it since wife is not well).

  he told me that his rc in the jersey city assembly hall last weekend was low.

  co told them that around 2600 were the total from 16+ congs that were assigned.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Journeyman

  More attendance reports via Reddit (from the Share Your Convention Attendance thread over there).
  Most people posting over there just put the numbers showing up but without context, but a few had some more detail:

  CANADA

  Edmonton, Alberta - 9,461 on Friday and 10,462 in Saturday, 10,681 on Sunday.

  "This sounds like alot (sic) but there isn’t one in Saskatchewan at all. Everyone there got assigned to travel to Edmonton. My parents live in Saskatchewan and they always use to have 4-5,000, in the 80’s it was closer to 6-7,000 people, now they merged two provinces into one."

  SWEDEN

  "Just got out of the convention in Malmö Sweden. Reported attendance on Sunday was 8647. Pre-covid at the same venue I remember attendance numbers peaking well over 9000. 58 were baptized. Mostly born in teens seemingly but a couple of converts aswell (sic)."
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  28

  Rainbow 🌈 Law Makers will turn on Religion NOT the UN

  by JohnTron7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it should be starting to become more clear to people what i've stated for years on this site.

  the threat against religion that becomes pivotal will come from lgbtq politicians forcing through " hate crime" bills aimed at religions.

  in the past i have had a " maybe" statement from only one commenter.

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  Journeyman

  Reminds me of a similar outrageous case about a homosexual man who sued a baker in Ireland who refused to bake a cake with a message in support of same-sex marriage.

  The issue went on for seven years but eventually he lost his case (fortunately) - but not before a lot of wasted time and money, and stress for the baker and his family. A business should be free to refuse custom without fear of being arrested by the police or dragged through expensive court proceedings.

  Ashers 'gay cake' case: European court rules case inadmissible
  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59882444

  Background to the case
  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32065233