Journeyman

Joined

• started 2 topics
• posted 668 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Journeyman

• 
  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Journeyman

  All these negatives people try to attach to a " JW mindset" is just how people in the real world act. It's just how people are.

  I completely agree. Gossiping and being judgemental are far from exclusively a "JW mindset". Just look at all the rumours, slander, arguments and cliques or secular 'cults' on social media, and think about the examples of people being 'cancelled' and the like - they are all about people judging others and often 'disfellowshipping' them from their social or professional circles.

  I think exJWs tend to use the phrase "JW mindset" in this context just to dismiss criticism (sometimes legitimate, sometimes not) of their own words or actions. Someone like Lloyd especially uses it in this way.

  To me, a real "JW mindset" is more about things like separation from the world, irrational fear of socialising, secular education and of getting to know people outside their organisation, that sort of thing. Those are attitudes that you rarely find outside the JWs (and other high-control religious groups).
  
  
  
• 
  93

  Regional Convention Attendance

  by XBEHERE in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  elder friend of mine texted me asking what my rc attendance was 2 weeks ago (family and i streamed it since wife is not well).

  he told me that his rc in the jersey city assembly hall last weekend was low.

  co told them that around 2600 were the total from 16+ congs that were assigned.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Journeyman

  So the 'flagship' UK conventions at London's Excel convention centre and Wembley arena are happening this weekend (18th-20th) and next (25th-27th).

  Any PIMOs attending either location in the next fortnight, let us know what the attendance and baptisms are!
  And any other useful observations too. Will there be fewer volunteers and/or attendants, with more having to work longer shifts? Will there be any visible difference in the quality of the organisation? What will the general atmosphere be like - buzzing (because it's the first one for several years) or flat (because everyone's tired now)?

  Excel has been used before so it will be good to compare stats with pre-COVID years.

  I think this is the first year they're using Wembley arena though, so it will be harder to assess any decline so easily from those numbers, but I looked online and saw the venue holds 12,500 people so it will be interesting to see how many seats go unused. I don't know how many circuits are assigned there, but my guess is that the org would not book a venue unless they hope to fill it at least 75%, so they're probably anticipating around 9-10,000 minimum?

  Incidentally, I notice that there is The Big London Tattoo Show at Excel on the second weekend - at the same time as the JW convention. That should be funny to see the two different audiences mixing on the concourse! 🤣
• 
  12

  "the other sheep will feed the other sheep"

  by enoughisenough in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  interesting statement in this video...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zchsc1wedns.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Journeyman

  Some interesting details given here, which will help to show how reliable the information from WarwickPIMO is. So far there's been nothing that's rung alarm bells, but it's hard for outsiders to know much of this stuff for themselves.

  Unfortunately, it won't be clear until next year's convention season (although evidence of some of what is said might appear after this year's annual meeting, which is only a few weeks away).

  Interesting times, if true! Could cause more ripples and disaffection among the R&F, especially the older and more long-standing ones.
• 
  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Journeyman

  Interesting. Thanks to the PIMO follower from the Cult of Evans for this!

  Some direct quotes from the man himself:

  • "I've been crazy, crazy busy" Riiight.
  • "It's a very challenging time of year" Uh-huh.
  • "I tend to aim higher... I tend to set my sights high when setting targets for myself... and I think I just bit off more than I could chew in July" Ooo-kay then.
    

  Regarding the "scholars" he says are due to feature soon on his channel, he names:
  

  • Dr Dennis MacDonald
  • Dr Kipp Davis
  • Dr Robyn Walsh

  Do these individuals know anything about his background and how he is perceived within the exJW community, I wonder? If these are the three I've found, they all seem to have appeared on the MythVision Podcast YouTube channel recently, so it seems Lloyd may have simply farmed these contacts from a single source.

  He later claims his Faith Unchallenged episode on the Hare Krishnas will be done in a "very non-confrontational way" and he will be having a "respectful dialogue". We've heard those words before, and "respectful dialogue" is not something he's best known for among former friends and critics alike!

  Finally - the 'new hire': "someone who has just been brought in recently" to get interviews booked, he says. I hope that means Dijana has finally told him where to shove his channel and his 'activism' and is now distancing herself as fully as possible from Mr "Respectful Dialogue" Evans (apart from the inevitable access rights to the kids). It might be that he cut her off, but I do hope she made the first move. Either way, it will be for her longer term benefit (and that of the girls) to have as little as possible to do with him from now on.

  Now then - since Lloyd seems to like copying the patterns set by the GB, I wonder if he will imitate them with regard to desperately trying to find the PIMO 'leak' source and 'disfellowship' them? 🤣
• 
  16

  Church buys GEICO Woodbury property for $27M

  by Rattigan350 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  https://libn.com/2023/01/09/church-buys-geico-woodbury-property-for-27m/.

  after a previous sale fell through, geico has sold its sprawling woodbury property for $27 million.

  the buyer for the 236,365-square-foot office building on 20 acres at 750 woodbury road is the christian congregation of jehovah’s witnesses.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Journeyman

  I am sure it will make a lot of JWs angry who will now have to drive longer distances to these places.. This might become tiresome for some and the religion might lose more people over time.. But, maybe they don’t care

  There have been a few theories put forward by members of this forum (I can't remember exact names, otherwise I'd give them credit here), including the one I mentioned about the JWs becoming a mega-church, and another I remember reading speculating that they don't mind too much if they lose some members right now as they want to purge the 'hangers-on' and only keep the totally loyal PIMIs, and some of these seemingly extreme measures will accomplish that.

  I never totally subscribed to those theories and I still have my doubts, but I'm beginning to see that they might be plausible.

  Certainly, if you believe you've been chosen by God and Jesus and you're doing their work, then any decision you make is theirs and must be obeyed "even if it doesn't make sense from a human standpoint" - and anyone who doesn't want to follow is at best 'weak' or at worst an 'apostate', so if they won't eventually do as they're told, then they can go to hell Gehenna!
• 
  45

  Anthony Morris III demoted to Great Crowd!

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  well, that is my prediction for 2024 anyway!

  hey, if watchtower can speculate..... https://youtu.be/dn8askhhwkw.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Journeyman

  It'll be interesting to see whether there are any stories of comments made at meetings about this by any publishers (not likely during the study itself, but maybe informally afterwards) as this week goes on.

  In a few days time we might get some feedback on how this change has been received.
• 
  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Journeyman

  he was soooooo busy doing convention work ……but had time to go on holidays

  Yes, remember this retort in June to comments from people on Twitter saying he had missed posting about one of the recent breaking stories about JWs and was he going to talk about it?

  

  Remember, he's been swamped... apart from the comedy shows, the music performances, the trips away, the shopping for Star Wars items, the time spent writing posts about Apple goggles, the latest films he's been to see, whining about Britain and Brexit, etc, etc...
• 
  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Journeyman

  You can't help but get the impression that he's been carried along by others for all of his life. Left to his own devices, he struggles with the most basic things.

  Indeed. And his own stubbornness and refusal to take sound advice from those around him make it worse. He really is his own worst enemy.

  Speaking of which - isn't he due a members' video or livestream by now? His last update was 29 July. I know he's been on 'holiday', but that was over a fortnight ago - the biggest gap in updates for months!

  Those damned patrons - they will insist on expecting something for the money they give! 🤣
• 
  16

  Church buys GEICO Woodbury property for $27M

  by Rattigan350 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  https://libn.com/2023/01/09/church-buys-geico-woodbury-property-for-27m/.

  after a previous sale fell through, geico has sold its sprawling woodbury property for $27 million.

  the buyer for the 236,365-square-foot office building on 20 acres at 750 woodbury road is the christian congregation of jehovah’s witnesses.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Journeyman

  So they're going to build a large assembly hall there?

  This is probably with the intention of saving money on renting expensive corporate facilities in future (and possibly closing and selling off nearby kingdom halls). A brief look at the local area on Google maps shows lots of kingdom halls within about 30 miles radius of the Woodbury area. Plenty of opportunity to merge congregations, then close and sell off buildings.

  Perhaps those who believe the org wants to move to being more like a 'mega-church' with a small number of large facilities rather than lots of smaller halls - at least in the USA - might be right after all? There would be a lot of benefits to merging into larger congregations centred in bigger hall complexes: more control, fewer elders needed per congregation, maybe even reduce the number of circuit overseers.
• 
  68

  Is JW.org going Broke?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://youtu.be/e6gh6w7v03y.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Journeyman

  Plenty of large companies have over-reached themselves with mergers or acquisitions of smaller companies, property or other assets even though their long-term balance sheets are weak, and many big names have gone on to fail shortly after doing so.

  So again, just because the org may make an apparently sizeable purchase here and there, doesn't mean they are on solid financial footing.

  If they are sensible, what they will do with this land purchase is use some of it for rental income, perhaps by leasing it for property development. Too often they've just purchased land for their own use, which is fine as a held asset, but has no real value unless and until it is sold, at which point it only generates a one-off income anyway. The real win is in generating a regular return, and the best chance of that is with leasing of land or property for commercial or residential use.

  Also, in terms of long-term finance, if this is to build an assembly hall - as it seems from the info at https://jw-longisland.org - then it's probably with the intention of saving money on renting expensive corporate facilities in future (and possibly closing and selling off nearby kingdom halls).

  Perhaps those who believe the org wants to move to being more like a 'mega-church' with a small number of large facilities rather than lots of smaller halls - at least in the USA - might be right after all? All those dozens of small, ageing halls must be building up a serious repair and maintenance backlog, which depends on a dwindling number of congregants to support with their voluntary labour. Better to centralise more, sell off those burdensome properties and merge remaining congregations. A smaller number of large congregations would also be easier to control, to spread the falling number of appointed men among, and would enable the org to cut the number of circuit overseers too.