Posts by Journeyman

33

Awake! No.1 2023, A United Nations Advertisement?

by EasyPrompt in

awake!

magazine no.1 2023 and united nations promotions.

page 3, "world meteorological association".

Journeyman

Even lockdown was beneficial, they say.

Er... so saying that levels of particulate pollution fell and air quality improved during lockdown, is promoting the UN? Nonsense.

They explain it is only the abuse and exploitation that God will put to an end and that it is possible for the earth to rejuvenate with the right actions.

Well yes, but then that's self-evident (the latter part of your statement in italics) - not necessarily to do with what any specific world body may or may not do.

That is what they explain these organisations are doing.

Stating that some organisation may be attempting to accomplish something is not promoting that organisation. Nowhere does the article imply support for these organisations or express that God (or any JWs) is or should be behind them. There's no over-arching love-in towards the UN or other world agencies here.

God has designed the earth with built-in systems that can withstand the impact of sensible human activity. The Bible foretells that Jehovah God will, at his appointed time, put an end to the abuse and exploitation that has damaged our planet. -Revelation 11:18

This interpretation of Rev 11:18 goes back to at least the ~~Revelation Climax book~~ 1970s, interpreting "ruining the earth" to mean ecological damage. It's not a new teaching, and as far as I'm aware, most JWs accept it already. It's debatable, and most scholars tend to apply it to God repairing moral and spiritual corruption rather than pollution and the like, but the JW teaching isn't, and has never been, that it will come about by human organisations.

This Awake is just another example of the org using cut-and-paste quotes from secular organisations and publications to back up their teaching that the world is going to pieces, and then follow up with the usual selected bible verses to provide the "solutions". They've often used the old "people are trying their best and have achieved some good but..." line of argument in those articles, and they do it again here. That's not an endorsement.

Because it's the Awake, it's geared more to the 'secular' reader so it's lighter on explicit doctrine, but bear in mind it's being offered after they'll have been offering their WT on God's Kingdom for two months, so they're still promoting the "human governments won't achieve this" aspect.

As I said earlier, the only difference is they are more evasive now about the fact they do not support the world's governments - think of the Australian Royal Commission, for example - whereas they used to be more outspoken. This largely seems to be because they fear losing things like their tax-exempt status and having their assets taken away. Not how a courageous organisation representing God should be, of course, but not proof they support UN, just an indication they're trying to avoid direct confrontation (despite still teaching in a more lowkey way that it is coming!)

33

Awake! No.1 2023, A United Nations Advertisement?

by EasyPrompt in

awake!

magazine no.1 2023 and united nations promotions.

page 3, "world meteorological association".

Journeyman

Yes, we know that. It's old news.

They disaffiliated (or were removed - either way, the link was terminated) way back in 2001, as that letter itself clearly states. We're more than 20 years on from that.

Not to mention, as I stated, if they were really keen to promote the UN, WHO, etc, why is the article so lukewarm, simply using those bodies to quote negative information?

Here's what I mean. I count only one generally positive quote attributable to the UN. Most of the positive statements are from publications, not bodies like the UN or WHO.

However, according to the World Meteorological Organization, “only 0.5% of water on Earth is usable and available freshwater.” - Negative statement
In a 2021 report about water management, a United Nations source stated: “Globally, the current rate of progress needs to be doubled.” - Negative statement
“We have taken the ocean for granted,” stated UN Secretary-General António Guterres in 2022, “and today we face what I would call an ‘Ocean Emergency.’” - Negative statement
National Geographic reported that “the acidification [of the oceans] that has occurred so far is probably irreversible.” Sea creatures are “up against a global economy built on cheap fossil fuels. It’s not a fair fight.” - Negative statement
The book Regeneration: Ending the Climate Crisis in One Generation explains that when a part of the sea is protected from human industry, “the innate regenerative capacity of oceans is allowed to operate unhindered.” - Positive statement
Researchers estimate that within about 100 years, the lands could naturally achieve a healthy diversity of trees and other forest life-forms, according to a study published in Science magazine.- Positive statement
Referring to the researchers in this study, National Geographic reports: “To their delight, they found tree-planting was unnecessary.” In just five years, the tested plots, without any tree-planting, “were full of native trees.”- Positive statement
As a result, according to a United Nations source, “global deforestation has slowed by more than 50 per cent” over the past 25 years. - Positive statement (the only one in the article attributed to UN or other such world agency)
“The rate of primary forest loss in the tropics has been stubbornly consistent over the last few years,” says a report published by the organization Global Forest Watch. - Negative statement
According to the “2020 World Air Quality Report,” more than 80 percent of participating countries reported having cleaner air shortly after the lockdown was implemented. - Positive statement - but this is not from the UN or WHO, it appears to be a report by IQAir, a private company
But more is needed, as is evident in a 2022 report compiled by international agencies, including the World Health Organization and the World Bank. - Negative statement

33

Awake! No.1 2023, A United Nations Advertisement?

by EasyPrompt in

awake!

magazine no.1 2023 and united nations promotions.

page 3, "world meteorological association".

Journeyman

I'm afraid I disagree.

I see nothing in this magazine that is promoting the UN, WHO or the other bodies mentioned. It's simply using some basic quotes or stats from them - understandably, given they are supposedly international authorities in those subjects - to highlight what the magazine is presenting as a series of serious problems facing the planet. Also, it quotes National Geographic, Science magazine and other sources too. Are we to think the org is "promoting" or "advertising" them too?

In fact, you could argue the very opposite.

Most of the quotes are simply stating the symptoms of the problems. A couple are about the potential for what could be done to improve things. But none are really suggesting those organisations or publications have the answers.

In contrast, each section ends with the heading "Reasons for Hope — What the Bible Says".

The magazine is effectively damning these sources with faint (or no) praise. By contrasting the comments of these bodies with the scriptures, the magazine is hinting that these organisations are pretty ineffective and unable to resolve the issues they speak about - but without explicitly saying so (presumably so as not to get sued or criticised by those bodies).

It's a bit weaselly or mealy-mouthed perhaps, and definitely not as outspokenly critical as the WT of old used to be, but certainly not waving a flag for those organisations.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Journeyman

All these negatives people try to attach to a " JW mindset" is just how people in the real world act. It's just how people are.

I completely agree. Gossiping and being judgemental are far from exclusively a "JW mindset". Just look at all the rumours, slander, arguments and cliques or secular 'cults' on social media, and think about the examples of people being 'cancelled' and the like - they are all about people judging others and often 'disfellowshipping' them from their social or professional circles.

I think exJWs tend to use the phrase "JW mindset" in this context just to dismiss criticism (sometimes legitimate, sometimes not) of their own words or actions. Someone like Lloyd especially uses it in this way.

To me, a real "JW mindset" is more about things like separation from the world, irrational fear of socialising, secular education and of getting to know people outside their organisation, that sort of thing. Those are attitudes that you rarely find outside the JWs (and other high-control religious groups).

93

Regional Convention Attendance

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

elder friend of mine texted me asking what my rc attendance was 2 weeks ago (family and i streamed it since wife is not well).

he told me that his rc in the jersey city assembly hall last weekend was low.

co told them that around 2600 were the total from 16+ congs that were assigned.

Journeyman

So the 'flagship' UK conventions at London's Excel convention centre and Wembley arena are happening this weekend (18th-20th) and next (25th-27th).

Any PIMOs attending either location in the next fortnight, let us know what the attendance and baptisms are!
And any other useful observations too. Will there be fewer volunteers and/or attendants, with more having to work longer shifts? Will there be any visible difference in the quality of the organisation? What will the general atmosphere be like - buzzing (because it's the first one for several years) or flat (because everyone's tired now)?

Excel has been used before so it will be good to compare stats with pre-COVID years.

I think this is the first year they're using Wembley arena though, so it will be harder to assess any decline so easily from those numbers, but I looked online and saw the venue holds 12,500 people so it will be interesting to see how many seats go unused. I don't know how many circuits are assigned there, but my guess is that the org would not book a venue unless they hope to fill it at least 75%, so they're probably anticipating around 9-10,000 minimum?

Incidentally, I notice that there is The Big London Tattoo Show at Excel on the second weekend - at the same time as the JW convention. That should be funny to see the two different audiences mixing on the concourse! 🤣

12

"the other sheep will feed the other sheep"

by enoughisenough in

interesting statement in this video...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zchsc1wedns.

Journeyman

Some interesting details given here, which will help to show how reliable the information from WarwickPIMO is. So far there's been nothing that's rung alarm bells, but it's hard for outsiders to know much of this stuff for themselves.

Unfortunately, it won't be clear until next year's convention season (although evidence of some of what is said might appear after this year's annual meeting, which is only a few weeks away).

Interesting times, if true! Could cause more ripples and disaffection among the R&F, especially the older and more long-standing ones.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Journeyman

Interesting. Thanks to the PIMO follower from the Cult of Evans for this!

Some direct quotes from the man himself:

"I've been crazy, crazy busy" Riiight.
"It's a very challenging time of year" Uh-huh.
"I tend to aim higher... I tend to set my sights high when setting targets for myself... and I think I just bit off more than I could chew in July" Ooo-kay then.

Regarding the "scholars" he says are due to feature soon on his channel, he names:

Dr Dennis MacDonald
Dr Kipp Davis
Dr Robyn Walsh

Do these individuals know anything about his background and how he is perceived within the exJW community, I wonder? If these are the three I've found, they all seem to have appeared on the MythVision Podcast YouTube channel recently, so it seems Lloyd may have simply farmed these contacts from a single source.

He later claims his Faith Unchallenged episode on the Hare Krishnas will be done in a "very non-confrontational way" and he will be having a "respectful dialogue". We've heard those words before, and "respectful dialogue" is not something he's best known for among former friends and critics alike!

Finally - the 'new hire': "someone who has just been brought in recently" to get interviews booked, he says. I hope that means Dijana has finally told him where to shove his channel and his 'activism' and is now distancing herself as fully as possible from Mr "Respectful Dialogue" Evans (apart from the inevitable access rights to the kids). It might be that he cut her off, but I do hope she made the first move. Either way, it will be for her longer term benefit (and that of the girls) to have as little as possible to do with him from now on.

Now then - since Lloyd seems to like copying the patterns set by the GB, I wonder if he will imitate them with regard to desperately trying to find the PIMO 'leak' source and 'disfellowship' them? 🤣

16

Church buys GEICO Woodbury property for $27M

by Rattigan350 in

https://libn.com/2023/01/09/church-buys-geico-woodbury-property-for-27m/.

after a previous sale fell through, geico has sold its sprawling woodbury property for $27 million.

the buyer for the 236,365-square-foot office building on 20 acres at 750 woodbury road is the christian congregation of jehovah’s witnesses.

Journeyman

I am sure it will make a lot of JWs angry who will now have to drive longer distances to these places.. This might become tiresome for some and the religion might lose more people over time.. But, maybe they don’t care

There have been a few theories put forward by members of this forum (I can't remember exact names, otherwise I'd give them credit here), including the one I mentioned about the JWs becoming a mega-church, and another I remember reading speculating that they don't mind too much if they lose some members right now as they want to purge the 'hangers-on' and only keep the totally loyal PIMIs, and some of these seemingly extreme measures will accomplish that.

I never totally subscribed to those theories and I still have my doubts, but I'm beginning to see that they might be plausible.

Certainly, if you believe you've been chosen by God and Jesus and you're doing their work, then any decision you make is theirs and must be obeyed "even if it doesn't make sense from a human standpoint" - and anyone who doesn't want to follow is at best 'weak' or at worst an 'apostate', so if they won't eventually do as they're told, then they can go to ~~hell~~ Gehenna!

45

Anthony Morris III demoted to Great Crowd!

by Vanderhoven7 in

well, that is my prediction for 2024 anyway!

hey, if watchtower can speculate..... https://youtu.be/dn8askhhwkw.

Journeyman

It'll be interesting to see whether there are any stories of comments made at meetings about this by any publishers (not likely during the study itself, but maybe informally afterwards) as this week goes on.

In a few days time we might get some feedback on how this change has been received.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Journeyman

he was soooooo busy doing convention work ……but had time to go on holidays

Yes, remember this retort in June to comments from people on Twitter saying he had missed posting about one of the recent breaking stories about JWs and was he going to talk about it?

Remember, he's been swamped... apart from the comedy shows, the music performances, the trips away, the shopping for Star Wars items, the time spent writing posts about Apple goggles, the latest films he's been to see, whining about Britain and Brexit, etc, etc...