Posts by Journeyman

4

One criticism of the NWT

by Wonderment in

it's no secret that forum members on this site are well aware that i tend to defend the nwt as a product in more than a few places.

i, unlike some others here, do not view the version as unprofessional.

i feel the translation is quite good.

Journeyman

If you start religiously burning people at the stake for using your own old translation, then you are no better than the inquisition.

Whether you accept the basic NWT as an acceptable translation, that's one of the two big problems I have with the current situation.

1) I don't know any other religious org that would treat someone with an 'older' translation as a pariah, yet if a JW were to come to the meetings relying on the 'old' (1984) NWT, or even worse, the even older 'green' one, they are viewed as an 'oddball' or suspected of being an apostate, a disfellowshipped person or someone extremely spiritually 'weak' or 'backward'.

2) the 'revised' NWT removed some features which were useful, such as the plural YOU (there wasn't even any attempt to explain why this was removed), and the notation that showed that certain additions had been made for clarification (such as "other" at Colossians 1:16, etc). I'm not debating here whether any addition/clarification should be there or not. My point is that if a clarification is added, it should be made clear that that is what it is (just as past translators' marginal notes were indicated as separate to the core text) - not a part of the previous extant text. Removing the footnote notation makes the unsuspecting reader think that the wording given is as it was in the 'original' (ie source manuscript) and for any supposed believer, risks deliberately disobeying Deuteronomy 4:2 and Revelation 22:18-19.

50

To All Those Keen To Tell Us About Their Beliefs

by Simon in

we seem to have had an influx of religiots - the people who want to tell us all about how we / the wts / whoever are wrong, wrong, wrong about everything and how right they are.

they obviously have special insight, or voices (probably voices, right?

) telling them the real truth.. as proof, there is inevitably a wall of random scripture references and quotes.. sorry, but we're not here for that.

Journeyman

I've yet to find anyone start a religious group and claim to have insight that ... it will occur at any other time but the one in which the author is living.

I always found this somewhat arrogant - to believe that you and your generation are the one that will see "the end", that your generation specifically will not have to see death (whether that be due to 'rapture' to heaven or transfer into an early paradise) despite all the billions before you who have gone to the grave.

Even if you believe that there will come an "end" (and I do), it seems staggeringly arrogant to assume you and your generation above all others are going to be the ones to see it and to usher in the great "new world", build the foundation of the future, or whatever. The timing is God's not man's, and Jesus warned against trying to set dates or "run ahead" of God in that way, yet almost every generation of supposedly Christian leaders thinks it's "their" time.

It's also why I was never convinced by the proclaiming of the "millions now living will never die" message, as it was still being taught for decades, albeit not as explicitly as at in the Rutherford era.

The second thing that put me off believing the "any day now" hype is being aware of all the generations of previous Bible Students and JWs who have lived, grown old and died waiting with such certainty for their expected passage into the new world. In common with most of us who are or were active JWs for at least a few years, I've known elderly ones who have now been dead for 5, 10 or more years who long ago admitted to surprise at being frail, ill and at death's door when they thought they would stride into the new world while in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s... etc.

773

Breaking News: Anthony Morris III no longer serving on the Governing Body

by WingCommander in

jw
friends

this has been announced on the jw's official website, in the "jw news" section.

this is not a joke.

anthony moron da turd is out as a gluttonous body member!

Journeyman

Not only must you not know what happened, you’re not even allowed to ask what happened.

Sadly, that's not unique to the upper echelons of the JWs. Lots of major corporations operate that way these days. Also, remember all the fuss a few years ago about a certain footballer's sex life and him taking out a "super injunction"? They've been used in corporate and celebrity privacy deals, and because you can't even discuss them without risking prosecution, they are a particular threat to an open society, although by their very nature it's hard to know how often they have been used.

It seems to be a product of a paranoid society, and it's not surprising that the GB would also increasingly fall into that category. Any group that is not willing to let light shine on their activities or to even have them debated (let alone questioned) is liable to fall back on draconian secrecy measures if it can get away with it. That's true of corporations, governments or religions.

I wonder if even the people who made the “don’t ask” rule know what happened themselves. Or are they passing on a “no ask” policy from above without being informed what the situation is about.

I suspect most are the latter group. We know how the hierarchy works. The word comes down from the GB, to branches, to COs, to bodies of elders. So most of those layers probably don't even know the details themselves, they just absorb the "don't tell, don't speculate" message and pass it on.

29

Revelation book

by Gorb in

jw
friends

do you remember the jw.org book of revelation and how many times we had to study it?

in retrospect, all those hours turned out to be for nothing, the explanation of the prophecies is now completely outdated..

Journeyman

I do find it weird that the last time the book was studied, it was with an addendum booklet of ~~corrections~~ "new light".

I wasn't in the org at that time, but I imagine I would've found that strange. It seems like an admission you're studying out-of-date material.

I don't know any other time in (relatively) recent years that was done, and of course now everything's electronic, the org will just quietly update the publication online and it will be pushed out to devices in the next update, so noone would be any the wiser unless they were paying "more than the usual" attention (with those in the congregation rarely are, or at least will rarely admit to!)

It was odd enough when the org went through a few years (in the mid-2010s I think) of constantly changing the songs and produced two different songbooks in quick succession. As if they couldn't make up their mind what the 'standard' music and songs should be, after having the same songbook for about 20 years. I wonder if there were changes and differences of opinion happening at the time among the GB and/or in the music/audio department?

50

To All Those Keen To Tell Us About Their Beliefs

by Simon in

we seem to have had an influx of religiots - the people who want to tell us all about how we / the wts / whoever are wrong, wrong, wrong about everything and how right they are.

they obviously have special insight, or voices (probably voices, right?

) telling them the real truth.. as proof, there is inevitably a wall of random scripture references and quotes.. sorry, but we're not here for that.

Journeyman

I agree that it's good that we are free to discuss the possible meaning of Bible verses - or any other such topic within reason - on here, when among JWs we are not free to openly discuss such things.

I think it would be a shame if those discussions were curtailed.

However I do also agree that pages and pages of cut and paste quotes from philosophers or church 'fathers' (or any other sources really) do get tedious and often miss the point. And like TonusOH, I don't find just posting YT links persuasive either, as any of us can do that.

Also, I think it's best to limit any such discussions to no more than a couple of active threads at a time, otherwise it looks like spamming and can be annoying for those not interested. So if I have a desire to mention something but I see a thread already active on a similar topic, I would refrain from starting a new one unless I really thought there was something different to ask/say.

For example, I'm not persuaded by the hype and hysteria about COVID conspiracies, so find too many threads on that topic (or posters who throw the subject in at random on unrelated threads) a bore. So I can understand that those who don't want to read about or discuss Bible topics would be similarly put off by multiple active threads (or posts) on that subject.

77

Biden running in 2024 🤣

by LoveUniHateExams in

i've filed this under news and world events, although i could've posted it under entertainment, lol.

apparently, joe biden will be seeking re-election for another term in the white house.. this, despite a recent poll showing that 70% of people don't want him to run again.. biden just has to be the worst president i've seen.

his gaffes, over-relience on a prompter, and, more than any other president, his refusal to answer journalists' questions, all go to make him top of the list in terms of bad presidents.. it will certainly provide entertainment, if nothing else..

Journeyman

No it doesn't - yeah, it kinda does.

Yes, the George Floyd/BLM madness is but one example.

Others (from a UK perspective) include:

increased profile and celebration of Halloween, which used to be much more low-key until trick-or-treating was imported from the USA. There was an old tradition of going from home to home in parts of Scotland and Ireland but nothing on the scale it is today, and the idea of "trick or treat" (with accompanying cry) was apparently started in Canada then adopted in the USA first decades before crossing the Atlantic.

"Black Friday" sales - we never had such a thing over here until about 5-10 years ago, and the timing fits with the US thanksgiving holiday, which has no equivalent in the UK - our traditional sales periods were Boxing Day (26 December) and the January sales.

There are baby showers and "gender reveal" parties

NFL (which is now increasingly appearing at our main English stadium in Wembley and on UK TV) - which isn't even "N"FL for this country, since it's not from our nation!

A fair proportion of youth slang, including calling the police "feds" (when the UK is not a federation).

And then of course there's cancel culture, an extremist overspill of the MeToo movement - suppressing of viewpoints that are not considered "acceptable", including 'deplatforming' speakers at universities, libraries and other locations

Those are just a few that come to mind. There are many other cultural, linguistic and political behaviours that seem to make their way over here from the US, and I'm sure we're not the only country.

17

Brother Jackson visits the Italy branch

by LaFrancia in

brother jackson visits the italy branch.to all the missing brothers and ex-brothers greetings stay healthy!this week brother jackson from world headquarters is visiting rome and bologna where the new branch will be built (by now the watchtower has turned into a multinational construction company and the old days are just a beautiful faded memory).the bethel of "italian/dissident/fugitive/spiritual" witnesses (active, but who do not agree with the organization's policies and directives because they are unscriptural) which has only a virtual location on the internet, (john 4:23, 24) will inform with a simple report this weekend.these are routine visits, but sometimes information of interest to the lord's servants can come out by mistakegreetings.

stay healthy!

Journeyman

Why is it the watchtower is the the only religious organization that needs hundreds of facilities and billions of dollars just to share the so called good news? Meanwhile how many brothers in Africa are still meeting in shacks?

It's hardly the only religious organisation that has "hundreds of facilities and billions of dollars just to share the so called good news" - you might have heard of a little group called the Catholic Church, for example! But I agree with the latter part - it's hypocritical for them to condemn wealth disparity in other churches, when the GB are happy to demand millions from lowly publishers to splurge on fancy new branches and on video studios while members in other parts of the world still do not have basic facilities.

LaFrancia - thanks for the update so far. It's good to hear an unbiased, straightforward reporting of these events, rather than from the JW website or GB update video where it will inevitably be given an exaggerated spin.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Journeyman

This is vintage Lloyd. For an amateur open mic night, which of course offers no compensation, Lloyd still wants aspiring "musicians" to apply for the "job". Oh, and he wants samples of a few recordings these people have made of themselves. Who is qualified to judge whether an amateur musician is qualified to sit for an Open Mic night? Lloyd Evans of course. He's a musician!

He's trying to set himself up as a gatekeeper / rent-seeker - eventually, for anyone to get to perform, they will have to pay a "fee" to be approved.

What a thought.He must think he could be a promoter, manager and impresario. Like one of these blokes.

It's obviously all about control. And exploiting whoever he can for money.

The mind boggles.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Journeyman

I was thinking ,could it be that mister big head got into an argument with the owners of the DeWine bar , maybe expecting them to pay him now , since that event was mention in a local magazine ? anyway just a thought...

Possibly. He presumably had some kind of falling out with them, whether real, or just imagined in his own head and built up out of proportion. Or perhaps someone in the know about his other 'activities' and behaviours saw the publicity and let the bar owners know, and they decided to end their association? Who knows.

He does seem to leave a trail of chaos and destruction in his wake wherever he goes, doesn't he?

77

Biden running in 2024 🤣

by LoveUniHateExams in

i've filed this under news and world events, although i could've posted it under entertainment, lol.

apparently, joe biden will be seeking re-election for another term in the white house.. this, despite a recent poll showing that 70% of people don't want him to run again.. biden just has to be the worst president i've seen.

his gaffes, over-relience on a prompter, and, more than any other president, his refusal to answer journalists' questions, all go to make him top of the list in terms of bad presidents.. it will certainly provide entertainment, if nothing else..

Journeyman

because it is a civil case not a criminal one - why should a sexual assault case be a civil case, not a criminal one? <---- this is the key question.

Any American more familiar with national and state law might know better, but I understand it's because:

the statute of limitations prevents a criminal rape trial in this instance because too long has passed since the alleged crime (it supposedly happened around 1995-96), but
recent changes to NY state's law mean that victims of historic abuse can now pursue their supposed attacker for recognition of the offence and for compensation (this is the same law change which is allowing many alleged exJW victims to now sue the org years later)

Wikipedia on the case says:

On November 4, 2019, writer E. Jean Carroll filed a lawsuit against Trump, accusing him of defamation by claiming she lied about him raping her in 1995 or 1996. Carroll had first publicly disclosed the alleged sexual assault by Trump in June and said Trump's reaction had directly harmed her career and reputation. Carroll said she was filing this lawsuit on behalf of each woman who has faced harassment, assault, or belittlement. Trump stated that her allegation was a promotion strategy for her book titled What Do We Need Men For? A Modest Proposal, where she discloses details about the alleged assault. The White House Press Secretary responded to the lawsuit claiming it was "frivolous" and that the story was fake, "just like the author".
[...]
Carroll filed a second lawsuit against Trump in November 2022 that renewed her claim of defamation due to additional statements Trump made and expanded her claim to battery under the Adult Survivors Act, a New York law that allows sexual-assault victims to file civil suits beyond expired statutes of limitations.