Posts by Journeyman

57

JWs unrecognisable compared to my grandfathers time

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

my grandfather who has been dead for 37 years would not recognise the borganisation today.

he would turn in his grave if he knew the end didn’t come by 2023.. back in the 1970s he really believed in the 75 thing.

he was so disappointed and almost blamed everyone else why the end didn’t come.

Journeyman

My grandfather who has been dead for 37 years would not recognise the borganisation today.

Thirty-seven years? Heck, the organisation is barely recognisable from as recently as the mid-1990s!

JW ~~Televangelist~~ Broadcasting channel
GB members (and 'helpers') now given celebrity status; obedience and worship of GB ramped up
JW website
Old WT logo almost completely superseded by "golden calf" JW ORG logo stuck on every Hall.
'Revised' NWT
Multiple songbook changes
No paper Bibles or publications at meetings - all tablets and phones
Disney-fied Bible videos, including Caleb & Sophia cartoons
TV screens at Halls and routine video segments in the meetings
Awful sub-christian-pop-rock 'original' songs
Removal of roles like District Overseer, Magazine Servant
Pioneer hours cut drastically
Theocratic School scrapped and replaced with watered down meeting assignments
Ministry reduced to bite-sized presentations, removal of Reasoning book and other more substantial tools
Watchtower and Awake mags drastically reduced in size (pages) and number of issues
Public witnessing carts/trolleys introduced, books and more 'weighty' placements removed for just tracts, magazines and playing video clips
NY Bethel, London Bethel both relocated and previous locations sold off
Printing operations scaled right back; European operations merged so all printing now done in Germany
Major congregation mergers, hall closures and sell-offs worldwide
FDS now just the GB, not all anointed
"This generation" now 'overlapping'
Numerous other beliefs 'clarified' - compare this list of just how many more changes have happened since 1995 than were made before then! (remove the b from borg) https://wol.jw.borg/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200277174

... and I bet there are more I've forgotten!

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Journeyman

We've hit a bit of a snag getting our Friday afternoon convention rebuttal finished...

Of course, producing a rebuttal video for 1/6 of the convention programme is so complex that it required his whole team (ahem) an additional 4-5 days to put together. (Not like he hasn't already had weeks to prepare in advance, after he ~~begged~~ asked for high-res copies of the convention just over a month ago).

Good to know that the Lloyd Evans Channel is working so hard to give value to his paying members...

93

Regional Convention Attendance

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

elder friend of mine texted me asking what my rc attendance was 2 weeks ago (family and i streamed it since wife is not well).

he told me that his rc in the jersey city assembly hall last weekend was low.

co told them that around 2600 were the total from 16+ congs that were assigned.

Journeyman

I know! In terms of distance, that's almost the equivalent of assigning the whole of England to one venue!

As someone who lives in the UK (which is only about 500 miles by 300 miles in size) distances across the USA and Canada blow my mind. It's no wonder so many Witnesses in those countries resent all the Hall closures.

55

"Independent" Scotland joke!

by BoogerMan in

humza yousaf, scotland's first minister, said: "scotland, i'm afraid, is suffering because we are not independent.

" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-66012834.

try telling that to scotland's tourists and many island communities: the ferry services are dying month by month, and the two new overdue & over-budget ferries justify a serious legal/criminal enquiry.. any bunch of incompetents who can't provide a small country with a ferry service and a legally binding contract to build 2 new boats - having controlled scotland since 2007 - has no credibility in claiming they could run a country!.

Journeyman

But if you are arguing that Scotland has no right to choose independence then I don’t think there is any basis for discussion here.

Slim - Yes, I'm beginning to feel there is no basis for discussion here - but more because you're clearly not bothering to read my posts. I know I don't always write concisely, but please pay me the respect of reading what I write before commenting! Back on page 1 I said this (in part):

"...of course a referendum cannot be put off indefinitely in a democracy, but it would be massively wasteful and damaging to the whole of the Union IMO, and so that is why I would prefer to see desire for the whole thing fade among Scots themselves..."

None of your whataboutery over the EU works.

My "whataboutery"? I wasn't the one who said "were you in favour of France or Germany having a vote on whether the UK should be allowed to break up the European Union", bringing in a separate subject.

It seems LoveUni's response above has caught you out in the false comparison, so I'll leave that there.

Your comment about "control" again shows you clearly didn't read my last post commenting on how mutually deep the union between Scotland and England goes - it's not just a set of legislation or a fancy flag, and it's not about being a "vassal state", a phrase you used earlier. Perhaps you will understand my point better if I compare it to breaking up a marriage (Scotland leaving England) vs a tenant leaving a group of flatmates (UK leaving the EU) - of course both arrangements are by consent, but the first is much deeper and more meaningful than the other, and breaking it up is potentially much more far-reaching and damaging (to both/all parties) than the other, therefore should be considered far more carefully, which I see little evidence of from the clamour for repeated IndyRefs by the Nats, who seem to be chasing a nebulous dream of 'freedom' at any price.

Your next piece of "whataboutery" (see, I can play that game too) in bringing in Ireland fails to recognise that religious differences between England and Ireland were far more deep-seated and antagonistic and that the union of the two had been less stable and considerably more fraught with trouble in the 'recent' past (ie: the latter century or so of mutual relations) than that between Scotland and England. I don't ever recall Scots Nats occupying a post office in Sauchiehall Street and the British army enforcing martial law across Glasgow!

You've not addressed any of the practical and economic points others have raised either about budgets, currency, trade, customs and border policies, etc - something which I haven't commented on yet because personally, I think the mutual damage to all the constituent parts of the UK by Scotland leaving is more existential and far deeper than just those practicalities, although they of course are complicated enough.

On most subjects I often agree with your points and look forward to reading your posts, but on this one I can see your mind is set on repeating your mantra of "Scotland has the right to choose independence if it wishes" (something noone on here has disputed, with the possible exception of LoveUni who proposes a UK-wide vote) and various appeals to emotion by talking about things like "control", "insult", "regret", "colony", "captive state" and so on. It's obviously something you feel deeply personally about, and that's fine, but clearly none of the issues raised by others so far are registering with you, which is making debate rather pointless.

93

Regional Convention Attendance

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

elder friend of mine texted me asking what my rc attendance was 2 weeks ago (family and i streamed it since wife is not well).

he told me that his rc in the jersey city assembly hall last weekend was low.

co told them that around 2600 were the total from 16+ congs that were assigned.

Journeyman

More attendance reports via Reddit (from the Share Your Convention Attendance thread over there).
Most people posting over there just put the numbers showing up but without context, but a few had some more detail:

CANADA

Edmonton, Alberta - 9,461 on Friday and 10,462 in Saturday, 10,681 on Sunday.

"This sounds like alot (sic) but there isn’t one in Saskatchewan at all. Everyone there got assigned to travel to Edmonton. My parents live in Saskatchewan and they always use to have 4-5,000, in the 80’s it was closer to 6-7,000 people, now they merged two provinces into one."

SWEDEN

"Just got out of the convention in Malmö Sweden. Reported attendance on Sunday was 8647. Pre-covid at the same venue I remember attendance numbers peaking well over 9000. 58 were baptized. Mostly born in teens seemingly but a couple of converts aswell (sic)."

28

Rainbow 🌈 Law Makers will turn on Religion NOT the UN

by JohnTron7 in

it should be starting to become more clear to people what i've stated for years on this site.

the threat against religion that becomes pivotal will come from lgbtq politicians forcing through " hate crime" bills aimed at religions.

in the past i have had a " maybe" statement from only one commenter.

Journeyman

Reminds me of a similar outrageous case about a homosexual man who sued a baker in Ireland who refused to bake a cake with a message in support of same-sex marriage.

The issue went on for seven years but eventually he lost his case (fortunately) - but not before a lot of wasted time and money, and stress for the baker and his family. A business should be free to refuse custom without fear of being arrested by the police or dragged through expensive court proceedings.

Ashers 'gay cake' case: European court rules case inadmissible
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59882444

Background to the case
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32065233

93

Regional Convention Attendance

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

elder friend of mine texted me asking what my rc attendance was 2 weeks ago (family and i streamed it since wife is not well).

he told me that his rc in the jersey city assembly hall last weekend was low.

co told them that around 2600 were the total from 16+ congs that were assigned.

Journeyman

I've never heard of putting cardboard cutouts in the stands at venues here in the UK, but it sounds like London Bethel might have to resort to that, if the experiences here in the next few weeks are anything like the ones we're seeing in the USA!

The main UK conventions are starting soon - Brighton this weekend (14-16 July) and Glasgow and Milton Keynes next weekend (21-23 July) - so it will be interesting to see the numbers at those venues.

The London conventions will not be until 18-20 and 25-27 August (at Wembley and the Excel Centre), but as they're the last ones in the UK and usually the most attended, the numbers there will be very interesting.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Journeyman

You forgot the thought/speech bubble blaming Kim... and Dijana... and everyone else but himself!

55

"Independent" Scotland joke!

by BoogerMan in

humza yousaf, scotland's first minister, said: "scotland, i'm afraid, is suffering because we are not independent.

" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-66012834.

try telling that to scotland's tourists and many island communities: the ferry services are dying month by month, and the two new overdue & over-budget ferries justify a serious legal/criminal enquiry.. any bunch of incompetents who can't provide a small country with a ferry service and a legally binding contract to build 2 new boats - having controlled scotland since 2007 - has no credibility in claiming they could run a country!.

Journeyman

were you in favour of France or Germany having a vote on whether the UK should be allowed to break up the European Union?
Great point, love it!

No, it's a completely spurious point. The two referenda are not comparable as I pointed out on page 1.

The UK leaving the EU did not 'break up the European Union' (nor was it intended to), whereas Scotland separating from England & Wales would effectively break up the UK.

Scotland is the second largest member of the Union, the Scottish crown is equal in prestige and history to the English crown and the two have been intertwined for centuries (hence 'United Kingdom'). That's why Charles had to be crowned not just at Westminster but in Edinburgh too. (The royal coat of arms features both the English lion and the Scottish unicorn as 'supporters'.)

In contrast, while the UK was an important financial market for the EU, being the third largest contributor after Germany and France, it was just one of 28 nations, was not a founder member, and had only been part of that particular union for around 40 years - not even one generation.

Over the 300+ years of the union of the United Kingdom, multiple generations of Scots and English have become inter-related and have a shared culture, strong ties that cannot be said of the UK with the EU.

The modern obsession with Scottish independence is driven by extreme Scots Nats who have stoked it among more moderate Scots using dissatisfaction with Tory central government since Thatcher in the 1980s - but plenty of English and Welsh are fed up with the Tories too! Sadly, the extreme anti-English sentiments of many Scots Nats are inflaming English Nats too (who I also think should shut up) - both sides ignorant (or indifferent) to the damage to the whole nation they would cause if they get their own way.

The answer is not to take your ball and run away, but to unite to drive political change at national (UK) level.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Journeyman

On a completely different and unrelated subject...

Interesting video on dealing with a narcissist. The title is misleading though - this is more a list of 10 steps to preventing a narcissist from controlling you, and maintaining your own mental balance.

I can think of a certain mother of two girls who could have done with seeing this ages ago!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oweoGDLISGA