Posts by Journeyman

32

Secret Elders Book? Bwahahaha!

by NotFormer in

i remember a couple of decades ago when the internet was relatively young and the wt was at war with it, that they were battling to keep the pay attention book secret, commencing legal action against anyone who published it online (and of course, trying to out anyone who leaked it).

i think it was a norwegian skeptics organisation who had it available for download and dared the wt lawyers to come after them.. so i guess the new shepherd the flock book came out to try and put the genie back in the bottle and reassert some air of mystery and secrecy back into the equation.. so i typed jehovah's witnesses secret elder book into google.

colour me gobsmacked!

Journeyman

It should be the other way around. 90% counselling and 10% procedure.

Well said. I hadn't given too much thought to it until reading your comment just then, but it occurs to me that in that book there is:

No detail about how to give encouragement and counsel using the scriptures, just general points such as "maintain regular contact with each family in the congregation", "engag[e] individuals in positive, encouraging conversation" and "express genuine concern and be quick to listen".
Nothing about recognising potential in others and commending/training them (apart from a small amount regarding ministerial servants).
Nothing about how to empathise with those in the congregation whose situations you cannot fully know, such as children, sisters, depressed and/or suicidal repentant ones, etc.
Nothing about training yourself personally as an elder, or developing self-awareness in how you apply scriptural principles, trying to imitate Jesus or Paul or other good Bible examples.

There are probably other serious omissions too that haven't immediately come to mind.

I notice also that at the beginning in the list of an elders' responsibilities, "Obey direction from the faithful and discreet slave and from overseers appointed to take the lead" ranks above "Listen carefully to the expressions of fellow elders" and "Deal in a kind and loving manner with each individual in the congregation". Very telling!

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Journeyman

I heared he had to return to his old congregation to answer questions about what happened there

I can't see why he would have to do that, unless his ego just couldn't resist him going back there to put on a show. But who knows? Maybe more information will come to light in time.

Incidentally, his Patreon numbers have crept back up to 488 now. Not sure if those are all 'real' subscribers or some are sock puppets though.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Journeyman

"Forced" to attend a meeting sounds intriguing.

The only three things I can think of that could 'force' a person to return from abroad could be legal matters, a family issue or a health situation.

10

Watchdog reports on investigation into Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Britain

by AndersonsInfo in

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/watchdog-reports-on-investigation-into-watch-tower-bible-and-tract-society-of-britain.

press release.

watchdog reports on investigation into watch tower bible and tract society of britain.

Journeyman

So in other words, the Charity Commission has fudged their conclusions, and there will now be a further protracted investigation because the WTBTSB has restructured to change from individual KH charities to a single Kingdom Hall Trust, so the CC has basically got to start all over again with that body.

WT agrees to change their policy, then adopts a new policy which is found to be inadequate, so they change it, then that too is found to be inadequate, so they change it again. The whole thing has so far dragged on for over 15 years (2007-2023) - 13 if you count it from when the WT produced its first draft policy (2010).

Sounds like the WT has wrongfooted the CC and is playing a tactical game to spin things out for as long as it can.

10

Warwick PIMO- YouTube WOW

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

if you haven't seen this exjw redditer's posts or youtube channel check this video.

watch the whole video... you will have a different prespective on what happened to am3's gb ousting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvch8p1mfek .

Journeyman

"Good men, beautiful men." I wonder if he still feels that way about Jackson and Splane (and the others) now that they've stabbed him in the back and booted him out!

Morris does seem to have been more honest and open about certain things, like internal weaknesses or failings. That's going off-message and would've concerned some of the more rigid, robotic members of the GB.

But yes, the problem with someone like that being in a position of authority for some time is that they get complacent, too self-confident and too haughty.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Journeyman

Yes once it dries up he will flee back to the uk
he can’t get unemployment benefits where he is but he can in the uk

It's not that simple.

To be eligible for Jobseeker's Allowance (unemployment benefit) he would need to show he had paid sufficient National Insurance contributions in the last 3 years (which he won't have done, as he was outside the UK), otherwise he is only eligible for Universal Credit (a benefit paid to people who have no other income, or an income so low that they would otherwise fall below subsistence level).

For that, you get at most about £400 per month as a single person (and possibly additional Housing Benefit to help with rent). That is for everything - food, bills and any shortfall of HB (which doesn't necessarily cover all your rent). If he has savings above the equivalent of £16,000 at the time he claims he would not be eligible, and anything below that, then stepped deductions would be made from the benefit given to him (down to a maximum allowance of £6,000), so it would be even less.

Assuming he does not have Dijana or the kids with him, as a single male in his 40s with no disabilities, his options for benefits and social support are not great.

He would also have to show evidence he is actively seeking work. He's too lazy for that, and won't want to be put under obligation to the authorities.

So no, for that and the reasons I stated earlier, I seriously doubt he would move back to live permanently in the UK.

Here's the information from the UK government website about unemployment benefit and universal credit:

Jobseeker’s Allowance Eligibility
worked as an employee
paid Class 1 National Insurance contributions, usually in the last 2 to 3 years (National Insurance credits can also count)
You will not be eligible if you were self-employed and only paid Class 2 National Insurance contributions, unless you were working as a share fisherman or a volunteer development worker.
You’ll also need to:
be 18 or over (there are some exceptions if you’re 16 or 17 - contact Jobcentre Plus for advice)
be under the State Pension age
not be in full-time education
be available for work
not be working at the moment, or be working less than 16 hours per week on average
not have an illness or disability which stops you from working
live in England, Scotland or Wales

Universal Credit Eligibility
You may be able to get Universal Credit if you’re on a low income or need help with your living costs. You could be:
out of work
working (including self-employed or part time)
unable to work, for example because of a health condition
To claim you must:
live in the UK
be aged 18 or over (there are some exceptions if you’re 16 to 17)
be under State Pension age
have £16,000 or less in money, savings and investments

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Journeyman

But the cost of living in Croatia has to be low, so it's probably a better gig to beg on the internet for those in higher earning countries to send money, not realizing what it translates to.

Good point. If he were to settle back in the UK, he would have to do a real job to earn real money and pay his way.

Also, he keeps whining about how 'corrupt' he thinks the UK is because it has a royal family and because Brexit happened. Really, I think that's a cover for the fact he knows he can't set foot in the UK for too long without his past catching up with him. I'll bet there are elders from his former congregations who might still want to pursue him over his past (a lot of which is still murky and unresolved) and that might lead to other consequences he doesn't want.

So no, I really don't think he'll return permanently to the UK. If for some reason he had to leave Croatia, he'd probably rather go somewhere else - like Thailand where he can still live cheaply but also have his other "interests" catered for.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Journeyman

Good summary. Yeah, I remembered he'd said it was a combined figure with YT and Patreon, but as you say, I'm sure he inflated what was necessary to give himself more.

I reckon he had already arrived at the point where he'd have to cut his pay in order to keep Tibor and he didn't want that. He could have sacked him, but it would have doubled his work load and he definitely didn't want that.

Not only that, but his ego likes the idea of being someone's "boss", having someone follow him and dependent on him for a wage (look at his constant comments about having a "team" to make himself sound more important). He also doesn't want to have to admit defeat in any way. Getting rid of Tibor would go against both those character traits, so he really doesn't want to have to do it. It would probably hurt him even more than losing the Bunker/Ramacro.

It's probably inevitable though. Either he will eventually be unable to pay Tibor (and keep his own level of disposable income), or they will have a disagreement and Lloyd will do what he always does with people who argue with him, or Tibor will simply outgrow the man-child and his ways and move on.

12

Blood Card Check

by NotFormer in

i remember many years ago that apparently there was an annual event where witnesses' blood cards (or whatever they're called) were checked by some visiting wt dignitary.

that the blood cards were current, and that the r&f were carrying them.. given the situation in some countries that kingdom halls can't legally keep data about people who have been visited, is the practice of checking and enforcing the carrying of blood cards similarly illegal in some places?.

are there any places where it is illegal for the hlc to set up camp near the hospital bed of a sick jw?.

Journeyman

This does not prevent JWs who work in the hospital (billing, records, nursing, etc.) from telling local elders about any patients taking blood, having STDs, having drug addictions, or getting abortions. (Not uncommon).

That's pretty shocking. Here in the UK, that would be a serious breach of professional standards and your employment contract, and constitute a sackable offence (and possibly even leave you open to criminal proceedings).

NHS confidentiality policy says it's even forbidden to use internal systems to browse your own medical records or those of your family if you are an employee:

4.5 Abuse of Privilege

It is strictly forbidden for employees to knowingly browse, search for or look at any personal or confidential information about themselves without a legitimate purpose, unless through established self-service mechanisms where such access is permitted (e.g. viewing your ESR record). Under no circumstances should employees access records about their own family, friends or other persons without a legitimate purpose.

Action of this kind will be viewed as a breach of confidentiality and may be an offence under the Data Protection Act 2018.

When dealing with person-identifiable or confidential information of any nature, staff must be aware of their personal responsibility, contractual obligations and undertake to abide by the policies and procedures of NHS England and NHS Improvement.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Journeyman

what is that number?

Well, he felt it necessary to making a begging video when it was at 387, and in it he said he needed a minimum of 500 to keep the channel going as it is in the longer term, if I recall correctly.

However, he's clearly got headroom in there. He could lay off Tibor first, for example. And he's presumably inflated the figure above his absolute minimum to give himself extra spending.