Journeyman

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Posts by Journeyman

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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Journeyman

  
  
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  32

  Secret Elders Book? Bwahahaha!

  by NotFormer in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i remember a couple of decades ago when the internet was relatively young and the wt was at war with it, that they were battling to keep the pay attention book secret, commencing legal action against anyone who published it online (and of course, trying to out anyone who leaked it).

  i think it was a norwegian skeptics organisation who had it available for download and dared the wt lawyers to come after them.. so i guess the new shepherd the flock book came out to try and put the genie back in the bottle and reassert some air of mystery and secrecy back into the equation.. so i typed jehovah's witnesses secret elder book into google.

  colour me gobsmacked!

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  Journeyman

  Does it need to be a 'secret' book? If the instruction comes from the Bible, they shouldn't worry that the rank and file might read it.

  Well said. Whether you believe it's inspired or not, at least all the laws and procedures originally given to Israel are openly in the scriptures, as are the instructions from Jesus to his disciples.

  It was bodies of men forming 'clergy' classes that later made up their own internal procedures and rules in Judaism and Christendom, and - surprise, surprise - the org has copied the same pattern with their 'secret' elders book and branch letters.

  But it all comes out in the end... "For everything that is hidden will eventually be brought into the open, and every secret will be brought to light." (Mark 4:22, NLT)
  
  
• 
  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

  1. 
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  Journeyman

  Ok gotcha. Couldn't remember from when this was posted pages back. Things move fast on this thread (nearly at 1100 pages now too)!

  Anyway, the clock is ticking...
• 
  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

  1. 
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  Journeyman

  I'm guessing the case is still technically "live", but that the court told him on 14 July that they will be closing it within a certain period (possibly 28-30 days) unless he appeals and submits something more substantial.

  In the meantime, he's trying to spin out the idea of the subjects of his action being "criminal defendants" for as long as he still can.

  But we will know "the truth" verrrry soon and you know what they say... "the truth will set you free"!

  Or in LE's case, maybe this quote about "truth" and court cases will be more appropriate:
  
  
  
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  83

  Do You Think Trump Is Done?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  certain forces appear to be trying to make sure donald trump never runs for president again.

  some republicans are clearly abandoning trump and of course the democratic press has been saying trump is done!

  is trump’s goose cooked?

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  Journeyman

  There are plenty of circumstances where someone can be guilty of a crime in fact, even if their intent is not proven. That doesn't make them innocent, it simply means any subsequent punishment for their guilt is reduced, to take account of the lack of (proof of) intent.

  Even if Trump believed that dishonesty had taken place which resulted in him losing the election, if any measures he took, or advice he gave to others, to counter that were themselves unlawful, he is guilty of a crime regardless of whether he "intended" to break the law. Bear in mind also, this is an experienced businessman and former president, not some junior executive taking his first steps in the real world. He had plenty of political and legal advice available to him to check and double-check his options, and from a range of legal and political positions, if he chose to consult them. Instead, his default choice was shooting his mouth off on Twitter and the like, as usual.

  However, I agree that with the current febrile atmosphere, political anger and accusations flying on both sides, and the way that the US judicial system is a public circus anyway during high profile cases (think OJ Simpson, Michael Jackson, Louise Woodward and goodness knows how many other cases), then it's hard to see how this mess will be settled once and for all by these lawsuits.

  I highly doubt that there is much that will happen to Trump ultimately. Frankly, even if it's a matter of damage to his 'reputation', he's so bullish that that will not matter to him, and with the combination of his wealth, his formidable support base and the protection he has from being an ex-President (and possibly soon to be back in the White House again), nothing serious will happen to him in terms of conviction and/or jail time.

  All of this will just turn into lots of media madness and political in-fighting, the biggest outcome of which will probably be to severely damage trust in the US political system, and maybe even cause public unrest in places, but I doubt it will touch the man himself.
  
• 
  83

  Do You Think Trump Is Done?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  certain forces appear to be trying to make sure donald trump never runs for president again.

  some republicans are clearly abandoning trump and of course the democratic press has been saying trump is done!

  is trump’s goose cooked?

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  Journeyman

  A. He was following legal counsel in good faith and B. That his efforts were aspirational and not criminal.

  Haha! I wonder if that will become a notorious euphemism in the future, like being "economical with the truth" and Boris Johnson's "it wasn't a party it was a work event"!

  "Your honour, my client's intent when he turned up outside that bank with a shotgun, gloves and a balaclava, was purely aspirational, not criminal!"
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Journeyman

  if he thought the EX-JW community are all fucked -up , wait till he has the scientology cult go after his little channel

  What would be hilarious would be if Scientology went after Lloyd and exposed him.

  Oh yes. He's been bitching and whining enough as it is about what he thinks is a "campaign" against him. He ain't seen nothing yet though. If he crosses the Scientologists, he'd better be prepared for a REAL focus on his private life, then he'll really know what it's like! By all accounts, those people don't mess about when they decide to go after someone.

  The only thing that might save him from them is that he's small fry and with too little knowledge or influence for them to bother with. He'll probably hate that, but it's true. With such a dwindling audience and no real contacts or insider info he's no threat to them, though he likes to think he's some kind of great cult-buster!
• 
  32

  Secret Elders Book? Bwahahaha!

  by NotFormer in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i remember a couple of decades ago when the internet was relatively young and the wt was at war with it, that they were battling to keep the pay attention book secret, commencing legal action against anyone who published it online (and of course, trying to out anyone who leaked it).

  i think it was a norwegian skeptics organisation who had it available for download and dared the wt lawyers to come after them.. so i guess the new shepherd the flock book came out to try and put the genie back in the bottle and reassert some air of mystery and secrecy back into the equation.. so i typed jehovah's witnesses secret elder book into google.

  colour me gobsmacked!

  1. 
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• 

  Journeyman

  It should be the other way around. 90% counselling and 10% procedure.

  Well said. I hadn't given too much thought to it until reading your comment just then, but it occurs to me that in that book there is:

  • No detail about how to give encouragement and counsel using the scriptures, just general points such as "maintain regular contact with each family in the congregation", "engag[e] individuals in positive, encouraging conversation" and "express genuine concern and be quick to listen".
  • Nothing about recognising potential in others and commending/training them (apart from a small amount regarding ministerial servants).
  • Nothing about how to empathise with those in the congregation whose situations you cannot fully know, such as children, sisters, depressed and/or suicidal repentant ones, etc.
  • Nothing about training yourself personally as an elder, or developing self-awareness in how you apply scriptural principles, trying to imitate Jesus or Paul or other good Bible examples.

  There are probably other serious omissions too that haven't immediately come to mind.
  
  I notice also that at the beginning in the list of an elders' responsibilities, "Obey direction from the faithful and discreet slave and from overseers appointed to take the lead" ranks above "Listen carefully to the expressions of fellow elders" and "Deal in a kind and loving manner with each individual in the congregation". Very telling!

  
  
• 
  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Journeyman

  I heared he had to return to his old congregation to answer questions about what happened there

  I can't see why he would have to do that, unless his ego just couldn't resist him going back there to put on a show. But who knows? Maybe more information will come to light in time.

  Incidentally, his Patreon numbers have crept back up to 488 now. Not sure if those are all 'real' subscribers or some are sock puppets though.
  
  
• 
  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Journeyman

  "Forced" to attend a meeting sounds intriguing.

  The only three things I can think of that could 'force' a person to return from abroad could be legal matters, a family issue or a health situation.