Thanks for the post, Oz. I know that in my office we have all done little except stay glued to telly for news reports. This event will provide JW's with tailor made 'talking points' [former service overseer talking ;-)]. The JW's employed on my staff have not uttered a word about the nationalism sweeping our office. I purchased and had displayed a flag on our front door. Not a peep. This country is mad now, madder than at any other time since WWII. The support and sympathy shown by our allies will not be forgotten. It is so interesting to view this whole awful tragedy through 'eyes with the scales fallen off.'
Ustabee
JoinedPosts by Ustabee
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National Day of Mourning in Australia
by ozziepost inprime minister john howard has announced a national day of mourning for sunday, september 16 to remember those who have been killed in the terrorist attacks on the united states.
all flags nationwide will be flown at half-mast as well as church memorial services.. in addition for the first time ever, he has invoked the provisions of the anzus treaty whereby an attack on one member state is treated as an attack on all members.
thus australian support is promised to be strong.. ozzie (of the freedom lovers class)
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Interesting thoughts on the situation.. READ
by Brutus inhey everyone, .
everybody has called for everything from full scale nuclear assault to a more measured response, against targets ranging from the entire middle east to just the perpetrators.
the only country in which arabs can vote for their leaders is israel, where native born arabs are given citizenship.
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Ustabee
SixofNine:
[quote]Ustabee, it almost sounds as if you would be sad if there turns out to be a way to do this withOUT innocent civilians bearing those facial features and that skin being killed?[quote]Certainly not!
Actually, I know that the people who committed these acts can be struck in such a way to involve innocent people. My point is that if such innocents were to be involved that the ultimate responsibility would be on the heads of the terrorists. Who are well known for hiding behind women and children.
As a side note: I have started a thread in the Adult forum on this subject. I agree with Winston, dirty keying each other is no way to discuss these things.
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Interesting thoughts on the situation.. READ
by Brutus inhey everyone, .
everybody has called for everything from full scale nuclear assault to a more measured response, against targets ranging from the entire middle east to just the perpetrators.
the only country in which arabs can vote for their leaders is israel, where native born arabs are given citizenship.
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Ustabee
At the risk of getting embroiled in what is turning into an exercise in semantics, I must make one more post and then retire from the stage.
I am not an apostate. I am an individual who is a former JW who has decided to go another way. This is my right as an individual and as a human being. The trite answer:
The only answer is the Kingdom.
No one would like to see peace and security more than I would. However, when we are attacked by a criminal, we call a policeman. I, for one, would not be satisfied if that policeman said to me, "The only answer is the Kingdom."
The people responsible for the WTC demolition are cold-blooded, evil criminals with absolutely no regard for human life. That is a given. One thing for sure, however, these people cannot operate without an extensive and elaborate support network. Such a network requires some state support somewhere, somehow. Providing that support makes such a state criminal, too. When such support is identified, appropriate measures can be taken.
I suppose that the 'violence begets violence' argument could be applied in many cases. Had the Free World not responded to Hitler with violence, think about the type of world we would live in today. International terrorism is a cancer on the soul of humanity that must be eliminated, period.
Brutus is very angry. I am very angry. I'm frustrated that the authorities cannot reach out and grab the ones responsible and choke the life out of them. Having been in the military for a number of years as young man, I know exactly what is going through the mind of the American servicemen and women. It is cold, quiet rage. If innocent civilians are killed (collateral damage), that is a consequence of the actions taken on 9-11. The entire death toll of the terrorist attack is 'collateral damage.' There is a time to fight and a time to talk. The time to talk is now obviously over.
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Interesting thoughts on the situation.. READ
by Brutus inhey everyone, .
everybody has called for everything from full scale nuclear assault to a more measured response, against targets ranging from the entire middle east to just the perpetrators.
the only country in which arabs can vote for their leaders is israel, where native born arabs are given citizenship.
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Ustabee
My eyes are red from watching too much TV news. My heart is heavy for the loss of life. I'm mad as hell and I don't yet know at whom exactly I'm maddest. Our leaders, for being asleep at the switch, or the evil bastards who did this. Make no mistake, Americans in a large part of the world are hated. I lived in Greece in 1974 when being an American could get rocks thrown at you, or even worse, get your car burned. (They tried to burn my car, but they didn't know how to do it efficiently) My former Commanding Officer, Captain George Tsantis, was assassinated in Athens in the late 70's. His crime, being the Naval Attache at the U.S. Embassy in Athens.
Make no mistake, an attack like the one yesterday will not make the US cave in, it will only unite a people famous for being able to react to this kind of thing.
You can also rest assured that the US Military is planning its reponse as I write this. Any armed country or individual that supports these terrorists has put itself beyond the pale. Arabs will not be attacked because they are Arabs, but the scenes on TV last night and today of the man on the street in Palestine celebrating the most evil act in American history surely does not portray a people interested in peace. My thoughts are: If anyone carries a weapon in opposition to freedom or supports such people has painted a target on their back. No one should be surprised if rounds are fired at that target.
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AMERICA'S REVENGE HAS STARTED!
by nicolaou inreports are coming in (bbc) of tracer fire and explosions in kabul, afghanistan.. this is of course wher osama bin laden is holed up - have the fbi/cia managed to successfully pin this atrocity on him already?.
nic'
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Ustabee
May God Almighty have mercy on these people... The people of this country will surely not.
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What does the WBTS say about today? READ!!
by LDH ini just called wbts public information office.
718 560-5619.. i had a hard time not busting out laughing........ i asked them, "is this armeggedon?".
the girl who answered the phone laughed.
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Ustabee
Just as Armageddon did not come on Dec 7, 1941, nor will it come on (appropriately) 9-11. We will never be the same, though... come what may. However, I would venture a guess that any foreign aid to an Arab country is going to get a long look... Especially since the U.S. Military is probably drawing a bead right this minute on any terrorist org currently carrying a weapon in opposition to the West.
The WTS is going to make all it can of this... but it will still be the same old BS....
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When the dubs cry
by freeman inwhat is it about the organization that changes seemingly normal people into carbon copies of corporate policy, changes them down to their very soul?
how is it that loyalty to this organization can cause one to turn off natural affection between parent and child, spouses, grandparents etc.
what exactly, specifically, is it that they do during these five weekly meetings and/or with their printed words that has such a profound and powerful effect on people.
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Ustabee
What She Said!
When you have their information drummed into you day after day, week after week, year after year, you can become almost like a corpse walking around, you lose your own identity and I for one felt 'lifeless', as though all my spirit, all my zest for life had been sucked out of me.
The only thing I know for sure is: that I don't know anything for sure.
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VietNam Era
by Tina inreading country joe's posts got me thinkingabout the vietnam war era folks here.. what were you doing at that time?.
as jw's and non-jw's,what were your feelings about the war?.
are you a vet or child of one?.
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Ustabee
Jeffory:
First, let me say, "Welcome home, Brother." I, too lost a cousin in the 25th Inf at Cu Chi. He was KIA on 30 Oct 1968. He was in the 2nd Battalion, 27th Inf Reg't, 25th Inf Division. His name was Danny Gray of Fordyce, AR. He was 20 at the time, on his first combat patrol. The 25th Inf Div was stationed at Cu Chi, well known by another name, "The Iron Triangle". The regiments in the 25th sustained some of the highest casualties of the Vietnam Conflict especially in 67 and 68.
LDH:
After all my Dad saw especially, I wonder if that didn't set him up to buy into the WTBS load of bull lock stock and barrel.
I know in my case, it did to a certain extent. Many of us of the time were sick of the 'establishment' and we had lost too many friends to a war that seemed to have no real purpose. A paradise earth where everyone got along sounded mighty darn good to me at the time.
The only thing I know for sure is: that I don't know anything for sure.
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VietNam Era
by Tina inreading country joe's posts got me thinkingabout the vietnam war era folks here.. what were you doing at that time?.
as jw's and non-jw's,what were your feelings about the war?.
are you a vet or child of one?.
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Ustabee
Tina:
I was neck deep in the US Navy at the time; 1967-1976. Spent part of '69 and '70 attempting to 'kill commies for Christ' as one quite irreverent shipmate would say each time we engaged in a fire mission. In 1976 I left the service as a C.Oobjector. Studied with the JW's and 'saw the light.' At the time I didn't realize how much of a flashing light it was. ;-)
Interestingly, I always remained proud of my service, even though I didn't make a big deal out of it. Now, I look back on my years in the JW with regret and my service to my country with pride.
One point, however, the late 60's and 70's were a momentous time. Many of us in the military at the time were very conflicted about the war and its implications. I'm sure some thought that a revolution was about to take place in the U.S. Major colleges at the time were hotbeds for radical idealogy.
The WTS was able to weather the '75 debacle a lot more easily because of the unsettled times. A lot of people were looking for the world to end, not just JW's. [e.g., The Late, Great Planet Earth, by Hal Lindsey] Utilizing the 20/20 hindsight years bring, had the times been a little more settled the WTS would probably have had a much harder time defending the charges of 'false prophet.'
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Deepening Saddness
by Amazing ini look back on the 1970s with a sense of loss and nostalgia.
i was a young man, just married, and so much in love with my beautiful wife.
i had just started my engineering career, and was debt free.
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Ustabee
Amazing:
I, too, have looked back on all those years with a certain amount of regret. I was baptized in 1976 and felt so smug having all the answers. Guess what? Now all I have are questions. However, we are what we are because of our experiences. I learned a lot of things in the JW's. Primarily how to deal with and approach people and they taught me to be a public speaker. All of which has helped me immensely. Would I do it again? Hell, no! I am so totally glad to be out of it and have my family out, too.
I prefer the questions to the answers the WTS has, that's for sure. I look on the bright side in my own situation: 1) I have a lovely wife. 2) Fantastic grandchildren 3) One fast as hell motorcycle 4) A decent job that I enjoy. You are obviously looking on your bright side and that will always make you feel better. I went through months of depression after learning the 'Truth' about the 'Truth', but it got better and now I am just taking one day at a time and enjoying the hell of it.
The only I know for sure is: that I don't know anything for sure.