· if religions were immune to division.
· if scriptures were immune to scientific errors.
· if religious leaders were immune to hypocrisy.
Onager,
If belief in God were creating good citizens, everyone would have accepted God even if he were not real. Everyone accepted electricity without even labeling it American electricity, UK electricity, Russian electricity …etc. because electricity is good.
If belief in God were not creating good citizens, some would doubt the existence of God which means atheism would only appear after decay of theism.
· if religions were immune to division.
· if scriptures were immune to scientific errors.
· if religious leaders were immune to hypocrisy.
David_Jay,
I was clearly disagreeing with “The Cambridge study (and others like it) providence evidence that atheism grew just as naturally and even independently of religion.”
Atheists' declared stand has always been this: ‘If God exists, why is His influence not seen on the lives of believers [most of them are hypocritical], and why do we find suffering in the world?’
These two questions arise from a view that people would be influenced by truth. But the fact is that people may or may not be influenced by truth. For example, those who smoke cigarette know that it is injurious to their health, and yet this knowledge has no influence on them. Existence of prison is a testimony to the fact that the society does not like violation of its rules, yet existence of prison in all the countries does not exert any influence on people who are bent on breaking the laws. That means God exerting no influence on the believers is not a case against His existence. People would behave the way they like whether God exists or not—some believers may act righteously and some believers wickedly, and some atheists may act altruistically and some atheists wickedly.
That God does not do anything to correct the misconception too does not prove his non-existence. Let me tell you: I were God, I would not provide any proof that I exist because I want people to reach their own conclusion self-motivated.
so all the jw's i know are practically wetting their pants in excitement over the russian letters they are sending out.
they seem to have this insane idea that putin's office will be pulled sky high with all these letters and they have this image in their imaginations of him having to open and read every letter (!).
also all the jw's i know have all put their name and address on the letter... which couldn't have any repercussions of course (!
Former KGB Chief Putin is beyond all predictions. When a school was taken over by the Chechen terrorists who tried to bargain over the lives of innocent school children (over a few hundreds), Putin did not think about the possible loss of lives—he simply ordered commando operation and killed all the terrorists. His policy is to treat terrorists as terrorists. For him extremism means extremism—whether it is through weapon or worship
That means letter-campaign by JWs is unlikely to have any influence on Putin’s Justice Department. Such human tactics might work with small countries like Malawi. It’s merely human pressure tactics. JWs should learn from Bible character Gideon and his few people. The 300 stood still in their assigned positions as God caused the enemies to use their own swords to slaughter one another. The camp was routed, escape was cut off, and mop-up operations involving an arduous pursuit permanently removed the Midianite threat. The long and murderous occupation has finally come to an end.—Judges 7:19-25; 8:10-12, 28.
· if religions were immune to division.
· if scriptures were immune to scientific errors.
· if religious leaders were immune to hypocrisy.
Cold Steel,
You conclude: Thus, if there is a God, it stands to reason He would reveal Himself...and conceal Himself
No influence of God is seen in religions, scriptures and believers which in turn gave reason for the appearance of atheism. For example, one high profile atheist is known for his question: “Why do people kill in the name of God if He really exists?”
But my point is: Is God responsible for this phenomenon? We know that prisons exist as a testimony against the fact the society does not like people to violate laws—yet prison exerts no influence on people who are bent on violating laws. That means God exerting no influence is not a case against his existence. People would behave the way they like whether God exists or not—some believers may act wickedly, and some atheists may act altruistically which means knowledge that God exists or not does not exert any influence on people. This may be the reason why God shows no interest in clearing all the misconception about Himself.
· if religions were immune to division.
· if scriptures were immune to scientific errors.
· if religious leaders were immune to hypocrisy.
David_Jay
My point is not about positioning of scriptures (whether it comes after or before the inception of religion matters not). My point is that atheists could not find a god that exerts power over religion, scriptures and believers. Atheists who have no problem in accepting things that are real would find no need to reject God if His influence were to be seen in religions, scriptures and believers. The very fact that we are all here shows that we left JWs because we found God exerting no influence over the so-called God’s own people.
1. in bro sandersons latest video (in which he shows a very impressive skill with russian) he mentions two likely results of the imminent russian ban: the liquidation of the branch office and its assets, and the individual brothers capacity to worship freely.
no prizes for guessing which one gets mentioned first!.
2. why have the gb never attempted in the past, and are not interested in attempting now, such a letter writing campaign in other communist countries where the work is under similar restrictions, like china, or vietnam?
More than loss of property, they may be worried how such a ban on sizable number of JWs by what they call the “North” King would misfire on their Bible prophecy—it would also mean that God is not interested in His people. Greatest worry may be about being shunned in a conspicuous way—people who popularized shunning is going to be shunned in the day light by most powerful country on the earth!
1. in bro sandersons latest video (in which he shows a very impressive skill with russian) he mentions two likely results of the imminent russian ban: the liquidation of the branch office and its assets, and the individual brothers capacity to worship freely.
no prizes for guessing which one gets mentioned first!.
2. why have the gb never attempted in the past, and are not interested in attempting now, such a letter writing campaign in other communist countries where the work is under similar restrictions, like china, or vietnam?
Ban news is out
https://sputniknews.com/russia/201703241051936483-religious-group-suspension-extremism/
The worst is yet to come: "On April 5 the Supreme Court of Russia is expected to decide whether the religious group should be banned outright in the country."
during my time dealing with the jw, i was always a bit annoyed by the whole "use god's name" thing.. one day i asked somebody the following:.
"if i murder and torture a child, and claim to do it in jehovah's name, who did i serve.
if i rescue, comfort, and help heal the same, and claim to do it in the name of satan, who then did i serve?".
It's all amounts to not being able to understand what Jesus himself said in Mathew 7:21-23: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!"
Jesus has already disowned those operating in his name!
· if religions were immune to division.
· if scriptures were immune to scientific errors.
· if religious leaders were immune to hypocrisy.
cold steel,
Your comparison would not make sense because of the following reasons:
|
Religion |
Science |
|
Belief in Supernatural |
No place for supernatural beliefs |
|
Has godmen |
Does not accept godmen or anybody unquestioningly |
|
Essence of religion is miracle |
No miracle in science |
|
Based on revelation |
Based on Method of Science |
|
Makes predictions that cannot be tested, as in astrology |
Makes testable predictions |
|
Religion is static – once formed never changes |
Science is dynamic – evolves continuously |
|
In religion, truth represents the opinion of its leaders |
In science, truth is not somebody’s opinion. It can be verified, tested and validated. |
|
No built-in correction |
Built-in correction present |
|
Questioning is not permissible |
Questioning is one’s fundamental right |
|
Godmen have answer for everything |
Scientists do not have any hesitation to admit that they don’t know |
|
Parochial |
International |
|
Divides the people |
Unites the people |
|
Inspired by emotion |
Guided by logic |
· if religions were immune to division.
· if scriptures were immune to scientific errors.
· if religious leaders were immune to hypocrisy.
fukitol,
Yes I believe that Jesus was a humanist par excellence, otherwise he would not have declared the most revolutionary statement in Mathew 7:21-23 and 21:43. All the exclusive views seem to have been added later by myopic people.
