If a JW says he received some information from the 24 elders from heaven, a JC will judge him as having had demonic contact.
GB will not behave like Eli who encouraged young Samuel to get more information from God (because of ego-problem)
Posts by venus
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3A question to ask the trolley Witnesses
by The Fall Guy in"do jehovah' witnesses believe that it's ok to receive messages from dead people who are in heaven?
re chap.
20 pp.
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Isn’t concept of sinner itself faulty?
by venus ina person may sometimes get swelling on his leg and may have limped a few times—but he is never called lame.
similarly, sometimes a person may slip into selfishness and use his free-will to his own harm or to the harm of others—but this does not make him a sinner because the ability to do the contrary (ability choose to commit virtuous act to any extent) too exists in him.
if one’s occasional sinning does not make him a sinner, sin of another person (such as first human couple) can never make others sinners.
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venus
Concept that sin is hereditary is the invention of Paul who openly admits that he was not inspired--2 Cor. 11:17
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Miracles and responses—both are not explicable
by venus ina miracle is an event not explicable by natural or scientific laws.
bible reports many such miracles.
interestingly, responses to these reported miracles could be even labeled as a greater miracle which cannot be explained by any known law, logic or experience.
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venus
Drearyweather,
You said: "No matter how good you do, you will always have some people who won’t be grateful for you have done, or will forget the favor you do to them. That’s what we call human, thankful today, thankless tomorrow."
If there is no ruler in the White House for 40 days, would the American people forget their founding fathers and all the bloodshed in the freedom struggle? Is it for no reason that finally God decreed only Joshua and Caleb would enter the promised land?
You provide three reasons why people rejecting Jesus. But they do not explain why should anyone prefer a bandit to an altruistic miracle worker.
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Miracles and responses—both are not explicable
by venus ina miracle is an event not explicable by natural or scientific laws.
bible reports many such miracles.
interestingly, responses to these reported miracles could be even labeled as a greater miracle which cannot be explained by any known law, logic or experience.
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venus
Confusedalot,
You say: “Our Lord was killed due to his perceived attack or blasphemy against the religious "truth" of the time...in spite of the miracles he performed to try to wake them up.”
Miracles, if they were really performed—such as resurrection, calming the storm which suggest the power over life and natural forces would overshadow ‘all religious the truth” of the time, and observers would automatically leave behind such shadow-like truth and embrace the real truth that is now at hand—just like one would leave behind toy car when he is given a BMW 640i Gran Coupe.
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Isn’t concept of sinner itself faulty?
by venus ina person may sometimes get swelling on his leg and may have limped a few times—but he is never called lame.
similarly, sometimes a person may slip into selfishness and use his free-will to his own harm or to the harm of others—but this does not make him a sinner because the ability to do the contrary (ability choose to commit virtuous act to any extent) too exists in him.
if one’s occasional sinning does not make him a sinner, sin of another person (such as first human couple) can never make others sinners.
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venus
Drearyweather,
You did not read carefully what I wrote: Similarly, sometimes a person may slip into selfishness and use his free-will to his own harm or to the harm of others—but this does not make him a sinner because the ability to do the contrary (ability choose to commit virtuous act to any extent) too exists in him.
By saying: “The ability to do the contrary”what I meant is “ability to choose to commit virtuous act” which is also given in bracket.
If sin is an inherited tendency as you believe, how can people at times choose to commit virtuous act? Evidence is that anybody can choose to sin or choose to do virtuous act, or choose to mix them in any proportion he likes. This is why we find people acting/reacting in various ways in same situation.
Sin is not hereditarily passed, but the path of sin is as follows:
From beliefs, attitudes are formed
From attitudes, thoughts are formed
From thoughts, action is produced
From repeated action, tendency, habit, destiny …etc are produced.
That means, it is easier to change your course in the earlier parts of the process.
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Miracles and responses—both are not explicable
by venus ina miracle is an event not explicable by natural or scientific laws.
bible reports many such miracles.
interestingly, responses to these reported miracles could be even labeled as a greater miracle which cannot be explained by any known law, logic or experience.
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venus
A miracle is an event not explicable by natural or scientific laws. Bible reports many such miracles. Interestingly, responses to these reported miracles could be even labeled as a greater miracle which cannot be explained by any known law, logic or experience. For example,
1) People who supposedly witnessed miraculous parting of Red Sea and other miracles are soon seen turning inimical to the performer of those miracles and turned into a calf-worship—calling that single calf as ’their gods who brought you up out of Egypt.’ (Exodus 32:4) This is like hostages who were delivered by Government Forces turning ungrateful to their saviors and singing praises to some symbol left by their captors! Such a response is unlikely to happen.
2) Generation that supposedly experienced beneficial miracles performed by Jesus are seen calling for the murder of him shouting ‘We want the robber Barabas to be released and Jesus to be murdered.’ (Mathew 27:17-21) This response too is unlikely to happen. Thus not only action (miracles) but also reactions (hatred of the miracle-worker) are against all known laws, logic and experience.
Just because one knows that words form a sentence, he cannot simply put any two words [e.g. healthy disease] together.
Just because one knows that events form action-and-reaction chain, he cannot simply label any two events as action (miracle-performance by an altruist) and reaction (the generation that experienced those miracles responded with murder of the miracle-worker). It is like saying: “When supply increases [action] price will increase [reaction].” No, even if it is gold, if its supply increases exceedingly and becomes like sands of the desert, its price will come down, and will be treated like sands of the desert.
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Isn’t concept of sinner itself faulty?
by venus ina person may sometimes get swelling on his leg and may have limped a few times—but he is never called lame.
similarly, sometimes a person may slip into selfishness and use his free-will to his own harm or to the harm of others—but this does not make him a sinner because the ability to do the contrary (ability choose to commit virtuous act to any extent) too exists in him.
if one’s occasional sinning does not make him a sinner, sin of another person (such as first human couple) can never make others sinners.
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venus
truth_b_known & xjwsrock,
Your questions are right questions for which believers will have no answers.
Now I will add something interesting:
The above situation helps me in my personal life. When someone disappoints me with his/her irrational behavior, I remember how irrational the world is in accepting blind beliefs such as above, about sinner. When most people are irrational, why should I be bothered about one or two individuals who displays irrational behavior towards me? It’s like asking “Why this particular drop from the ocean is salty when the whole ocean is salty?”
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Making Every Thought Captive To Christ(Washing the Brain Of Good Reasoning)
by Brokeback Watchtower innot a very good idea to say the least.
when i read paul's words the more i see how delusional the guy was.
he was a genuine religious fanatic who contradicts jesus words on the sermon on the mount.. 2 corinthians 10:5 5we demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of god, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to christ.. delusional and in need of some serious psychological help.
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venus
Paul is so innocent that he is willing to admit he is not inspired:
- 2 Cor. 11:17, "That which I am speaking, I am not speaking as the Lord would, but as in foolishness, in this confidence of boasting."
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Isn’t concept of sinner itself faulty?
by venus ina person may sometimes get swelling on his leg and may have limped a few times—but he is never called lame.
similarly, sometimes a person may slip into selfishness and use his free-will to his own harm or to the harm of others—but this does not make him a sinner because the ability to do the contrary (ability choose to commit virtuous act to any extent) too exists in him.
if one’s occasional sinning does not make him a sinner, sin of another person (such as first human couple) can never make others sinners.
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venus
A person may sometimes get swelling on his leg and may have limped a few times—but he is never called lame. Similarly, sometimes a person may slip into selfishness and use his free-will to his own harm or to the harm of others—but this does not make him a sinner because the ability to do the contrary (ability choose to commit virtuous act to any extent) too exists in him. If one’s occasional sinning does not make him a sinner, sin of another person (such as first human couple) can never make others sinners. That means there cannot be something called original sin. If there is no original sin, there is no need for God to send one of His children to die for the sins of other children. Interestingly, Jesus himself testifies that God sent him from heaven not to die for any body’s sin. (Mathew 21:33-36) Even if he is murdered (which is a sin), how can that be a means for atonement of sins of others—sin atoning sin? Besides, murder doesn’t really count if he gets to come back to life three days later.
When I asked these questions to my Elders, they said these are apostate questions, hence don’t ask such questions. If you’re not allowed to ask questions, how do you know you have the right religion?
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Why the vitriolic hate?
by stuckinarut2 ini am sure we have all thought of this before, but it struck me again today:.
why does the society promote such vitriolic hate toward, and about those who have left "the truth" ?.
surely it is obvious that such critical attitudes towards ones like us who have left, only serves to proove that they do not have "the truth"?.
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venus
pale.emperor,
Excellent points.
Because JWs are worried about giving an answer to the taunt of Satan, they approach everything with worry, anxiety, fear, and that adds to the problem. This makes them negative in their perspective—especially towards those who left them whom they view as the henchmen of Satan.