Posts by venus

18

Scholarly interview on the existence of Jesus

by careful in

perhaps this has been linked here before.

if that's the case, i'm sorry.

however, new people join, others miss things, some forget, so i thought it was worth posting, especially since this issue comes up from time to time and some here have never worked it out or are in the process of trying to do so.

venus

Hi jws, I would divide your questions into three:

1) “And people say it is the inerrant word of god.”

You are true “People say it is inerrant word of God” whereas Bible writers themselves do not believe so. For example, most of the OT prophets are unaware about parallel account of creation involving Adam and Eve and its attendant teaching of original sin which means we sin by simply being alive. Habakkuk even flatly rejected such concepts. (Habkkuk 2:4) Jeremiah rejected considerable portions of the Bible (Jeremiah 7:22; 8:8)

2)We know, Jesus was misquoted on everything. Did he really say "he is the way and the truth and the life. no one comes to the father except through me."?

Prima facie, Jesus did not say this verse because it is like saying “unmarried husbands” which makes no sense. Jesus taught we are all children of God whom he called “our heavenly Father” which inherently means it is inconceivable for Father to elevate one son over others and to imply that others have access to Him only through one son. Most of John’s gospel is fiction. For example, if Jesus really performed miracles, at least Mathew should remember what his first miracle (changing the water into wine) and last miracle (resurrection of Lazarus) were; yet we find it is John who reports it—that too in his senility, signs of which are seen from the beginning of his gospel. For example, he says Jesus ascended into heaven in the beginning of his ministry by making him say: “no one has ascended into heaven except him” while talking to Nicodemus. (John 3:13) Most famous incomprehensible verse is John 1:1 (Was there no other better way to convey what he wanted to convey? If one’s very first verse gives rise to over 2000 years of debate which has not yet reached a conclusion, it defeats the very purpose of communication. John also forgot Jesus had already declared that prophet Elijah has now appeared John the Baptist. (Mathew 11:14 contrast John 1:21)

3) And if it were god's testimony to the world, and he is all that people think he is, wouldn't he have the power to make sure everybody got every story correct? So that there would be no reason to doubt the message?

The very fact that God did not prevent the interpolations shows that scriptures do not belong to Him. Yet this does not mean some of the characters in the Bible are not historical. Some may be historical, and others may be symbolic figure representing the whole humanity like Adam (a word used for both mankind and an individual). Whether somebody is historical or not is not important because what they teach is that every action (good or bad) is responded to sooner or later which is the very basis of science, all the stories, all our experiences …

Like pure water available in the deep wild forest, Bible also contains certain truths here and there. For example, if you remember one verse of the Bible it is more than enough: “He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.” (Micah 6:8) We see that everyone’s thinking creates his reality which means we are all free to choose to do whatever we like to do which means God respects our individuality. We all love mercy shown by others which gives us reason to love mercy. God Himself shows humility by not doing any favor to theists and by not punishing atheists which means He is least bothered of honor or dishonor people shower on Him.

17

The utter absurdity of the "universal sovereignty issue", chapter 4,786

by sir82 in

so on the jw broadcast channel, there is a new 4 minute video entitled "why does god permit suffering".

i won't give them free advertising by linking to it, but you'll find it under the "latest videos" section.. it looks like it will be something that will eventually be used in field serve-us as a video to show householders.. anyway, it gives the illustration of the teacher and a "rebellious student" who says he has a "better way to solve the problem".

the infinitely wise teacher allows him to try, he fails, and the teacher is "vindicated".. other posts on this site demonstrate how inane the illustration really is - it breaks down nearly effortlessly.. anyway, the video goes on to explain that god allowed "rebellious humans" to continue on because (more or less direct quote) "millions of angels were observing.

venus

WT would not have ventured into this greatest mistake of all time if they had thought about why Jesus did not teach about Issue of Sovereignty. If such an Issue were existed, Jesus would have used all his superhuman skills to explain this vital subject to his audience giving maximum publicity to it repeating it more than any other subjects.

6

Organization Updates for POMOs?

by charonsdog in

i've been physically out since early 2014. before that, i was mentally out for a long period of time.

now, having zero contact with family or former friends, plus living in a southeast asian country where it is possible to not ever see a jw.

since i have discovered this site, i'm learning lots of things about the organization that i wasn't aware of before.

venus

Hi days of future passed, Good summary.

WT is preparing to say like Reuben who 'replied, "Didn't I tell you not to

sin [doing an act of shunning] against the boy? But you wouldn't listen! Now we must give an accounting for his blood." (Genesis 42:22)

18

Scholarly interview on the existence of Jesus

by careful in

perhaps this has been linked here before.

if that's the case, i'm sorry.

however, new people join, others miss things, some forget, so i thought it was worth posting, especially since this issue comes up from time to time and some here have never worked it out or are in the process of trying to do so.

venus

Hi smiddy3

Whether those religious leaders said fully what God wanted them to do or not, or whether they had everything in common matters not because each of them was also offspring of the time in which they lived. The principle on which they based themselves was like knowledge of medical science as a whole; yet what each of them taught was like prescription Doctors write for their specific patients (which would often vary from case to case). What matters is whether patient is cured or not. Similarly, what matters is whether those religious leaders helped people to become spiritual or better humans or not which we know they did. In essence, they were all highlighting the need for humans to be humane which can be accomplished either with the help of the concept of God (for some) or without the concept of God (for others). That is why Jesus said: ‘Love God and your neighbor,’ and Mohammed said ‘love God and desire for others what you desire for yourself’, and Buddha taught the four noble truths and the eight-fold path that can be practiced without reference to the concept of God whose existence or non existence was irrelevant to him.

Problem arises because of later additions by commercially minded people. But this is not a problem for me. When I read scriptures I do with alertness like a musician who can easily know notes in the wrong places in the songs sung by others. Take the example of Genesis account. It is said that God created mankind as two group—male and female (Gen 1:26) and told them to eat of all the trees. Then when it says God created a couple and prohibited them eating from a particular tree, I take this as something symbolic—something that humanity as a whole did is depicted through a couple for simplicity sake. It shows through one couple how mankind experienced a fall from expanded view of being a world-wide family into contraction of thinking in terms of ‘me and mine’—a concept that is highlighted through the reference of ‘a tree of good and bad’ because in egoistic disposition we tend view things as good and bad depending upon our convenience. Rain is neither good nor bad; yet we sometimes say rain is good and other time we say it is bad. So Adam and Eve story highlights how mankind fell into a new awareness, of egoism. The way God dealt with them show that there is no forgiveness in the dictionary of God because every action must be responded to which is the Law of Nature; and so must be ego. Ego creates hell for the one who adopts it. (Habakkuk 2:5) Egolessness creates heaven for the one who adopts it (Luke 17:21). Hence anything I read in the scriptures that hints at the idea that sin can be atoned or forgiven I rate it as imagination of later writers—not of religious leaders.

18

Scholarly interview on the existence of Jesus

by careful in

perhaps this has been linked here before.

if that's the case, i'm sorry.

however, new people join, others miss things, some forget, so i thought it was worth posting, especially since this issue comes up from time to time and some here have never worked it out or are in the process of trying to do so.

venus

Hi _Morpheus

That was only half this material. This comes with added information and modified for this context.

18

Scholarly interview on the existence of Jesus

by careful in

perhaps this has been linked here before.

if that's the case, i'm sorry.

however, new people join, others miss things, some forget, so i thought it was worth posting, especially since this issue comes up from time to time and some here have never worked it out or are in the process of trying to do so.

venus

I agree with his fourth point that discrepancies in the gospels do not argue Jesus never existed. Such discrepancies could be said about “most decent historical sources … such as contemporary biographies of modern figures” which would not prove they never existed. Husband and wife often disagree about their memories about things that happened years ago, months ago, weeks ago, days ago, or hours ago. Sometimes they both must be wrong; yet this misremembering is related to something that happened. It's faulty memory, not no memory.

An easy approach would be to look at the essence. Behind the details of all the branches of Science we see the essence: Science is the study of laws of nature (with a view to make use of them for our benefit) which means everything in the nature follows certain laws which would further imply that humans also must definitely follow certain laws that contribute to welfare of their own and of others if they want to enjoy their lives.

Similarly, behind the details all the branches of religion we see the essence: All great religious figures such as Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed …were sent by God to restore the remembrance of God which would help people to be good citizens of their respective countries. Hence what they spoke was truth beneficial for the people in their respective contexts. Later, commercial minded followers added things to the original teachings which make a mess of everything giving a reason for modern readers to doubt the historicity of religious leaders. (Mathew 13:24-30; Acts 20:29, 30) Thus what is of absolute clarity such as stated in Mathew 7:12, 21-23; 25:31-46 …are really from Jesus where as verses such as God-dishonoring (eg. John 9:1-3 …) are fabricated later.

39

Sincere question to those who no longer believe in God

by nowwhat? in

i get it, not a fan of yahweh the desert god.

but what about jesus?

anything wrong with his teachings like the sermon on the mount and the example he set.

venus

Hi Onager

Such verses are not from a religious leader but from the Roman Empire who wanted people to be blindly subjective to it. Hence they saw to it that Bible contains things like 'show the other cheek; if someone in authority asks you to walk one mile, walk two miles' ... etc.... and verses glorifying slavery such as Mathew 24:45 ....

39

Sincere question to those who no longer believe in God

by nowwhat? in

i get it, not a fan of yahweh the desert god.

but what about jesus?

anything wrong with his teachings like the sermon on the mount and the example he set.

venus

Hi smiddy3

Almighty God can remain Almighty allowing people to choose His guidance or to ‘reap what they sow.’ (Luke 6:38) Almighty doesn’t mean He has to use His overwhelming force whenever people want to misuse their free-will. A Super Power on earth can see that no one violate traffic rules by putting some mechanism of overwhelming force on the road; yet Governments do with traffic signals which allows road-users freedom to use them to their benefit or to misuse them for their hurt. Remembrance of results of breaking traffic rules is very much available in the minds of all drivers; hence such a remembrance is almost like omnipresent. Yet when some people in the territory of a Super Power violate traffic rules it would not mean Government of that Super Power country would ‘sound like some crazy mixed up dude who can`t make his mind up on how to help or direct people on the road.’

In real life, things are even worse. People know greed would not benefit in the long run which they have observed from the lives of others. In addition, every country has some stories (like "How Much Land Does A Man Need?" of Tolstoy) to guide people. Yet “Richest 1% own half the world's wealth.” (https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/nov/14/worlds-richest-wealth-credit-suisse) Why are not people satisfied with enough accumulation for one generation?

26

How soon is soon?

by Sour Grapes in

i guess if the jdubs have no clue how long a generation is they also wouldn't know how long a time period the word "soon" refers too.. 60 years ago my mother would hammer into my brain how soon the great tribulation was.

soon jehovah would destroy the wicked.

then a few years later there was no need to go to college because the end was so soon.

venus

Bernard Shaw perfectly understood the problem when he said:

"“No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says: He is always convinced that it says what he means.”"

39

Sincere question to those who no longer believe in God

by nowwhat? in

i get it, not a fan of yahweh the desert god.

but what about jesus?

anything wrong with his teachings like the sermon on the mount and the example he set.

venus

Behind the details of all the branches of Science we see the essence: Science is the study of laws of nature (with a view to make use of them for our benefit) which means everything in the nature follows certain laws which would further imply that humans also must definitely follow certain laws that contribute to welfare of their own and of others if they want to enjoy their lives.

Similarly, behind the details all the branches of religion we see the essence: All great religious figures such as Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed …were sent by God to restore the remembrance of God which would help people to be good citizens of their respective countries. Hence what they spoke was truth beneficial for the people in their respective contexts. Later, commercial minded followers added things to the original teachings which make a mess of everything giving a reason for modern readers to doubt the historicity of religious leaders. (Mathew 13:24-30; Acts 20:29, 30)