Posts by venus

51

Without god what is the basis of morality?

by OneEyedJoe in

i'm sure most here who've questioned or left behind their belief in god have encountered this question - without god, what basis can there be for morality?

my exwife, when i admitted that i was an atheist, once asked me "if you don't believe in god, what's to stop you from going out and raping and murdering?

" previously, whenever i got this objection, i would tend to turn it around on the other person with a response along the lines of "if fear of god is the only thing that stops you from murdering, that makes me rather nervous to be around you.

venus

Moral laws are such that those who practice them are benefited primarily. For example, if a shopkeeper returned the excess money you gave him unconsciously, you would give him more business, and even give maximum publicity to his honest and unselfish behavior. God is not a factor that influences the choices people make (see how some of the religious leaders acting greedily). You will find even scriptures dishonoring God with their irrational stories. There are Scriptures that say God is omnipresent which would mean God is equally present in the victim and in the victimizer. Hence I would say religions dishonor God and exploit the credulous because of which atheism arose and serve as a deterrent against the excesses of religion. In this sense, I would even say atheism is the arrangement of God whether they are aware of this or not. Interestingly, according to scripture of another religion, the first and foremost quality out of 16 qualities of spiritual person, is fearlessness which is the very basis of atheists

32

This Article Won't Change Your Mind - Great Read

by cofty in

this article won’t change your mind - the facts on why facts alone can’t fight false beliefs.

brilliant article in the atlantic by julie beck discussing the phenomena of cognitive dissonance and how it affects religious and political beliefs.

it includes some interesting thoughts on how social media has magnified the problem.. spoiler - she is not optimistic about the possibility of successfully reasoning with members of religious cults.. the article also has a link to the 45 minute audio version.. link....

venus

Very interesting read. What I liked was this:

"There are facts, and there are beliefs, and there are things you want so badly to believe that they become as facts to you."

20

Have you ever considered how bizarre the idea of "War in Heaven" really is?

by TerryWalstrom in

when you grow up and look back on childhood belief you have to laugh at how.

easter bunnies and santa were all too plausible for children because trusted adults who were otherwise unimpeachable sources of truth and reality assured and reassured kids.

why wouldn't they accept it?jehovah's witness kids didn't have santa, we had armageddon.only this morning i suddenly asked myself why i ever accepted the idea of a war in heaven as even remotely sane.

venus

Even human governments go for deep geological disposal of the most radioactive waste produced from their nuclear reactors. Heavenly Government would have done something similar if there was a war in heaven and Satan was defeated. Throwing the defeated group with all their unquenchable wrath on to earth is an extremely unwise option which God would never sanction. This shows story has its origin in the senile mind of John.

33

Child sacrifice and Jesus' sacrifice

by Whynot in

jeremiah 7:31 says, "they have built the high places of toʹpheth, which is in the valley of the son of hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that i had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’".

according to this scripture it's unthinkable for jehovah to be pleased with child sacrifices.

but yet he sent his son to be killed as a sacrifice for all?.

venus

What we need is the insight like that of Jeremiah who defined circumcision as 'removal of foreskins of one's heart' (Jeremiah 4:4)

Similarly, sacrifice was of the ego, the brute within, which was later deteriorated into animal sacrifice and human sacrifice.

God would only ask for sacrifice of vices. Sacrifice of any other things was devised by the vested interests.

20

Have you ever considered how bizarre the idea of "War in Heaven" really is?

by TerryWalstrom in

when you grow up and look back on childhood belief you have to laugh at how.

easter bunnies and santa were all too plausible for children because trusted adults who were otherwise unimpeachable sources of truth and reality assured and reassured kids.

why wouldn't they accept it?jehovah's witness kids didn't have santa, we had armageddon.only this morning i suddenly asked myself why i ever accepted the idea of a war in heaven as even remotely sane.

venus

Nice point, EverApostate

All these childish stories came into the Bible because of its writers blindly imitating pagan scriptures.

Hence I would say religions dishonor God and exploit the credulous because of which atheism arose and serve as a deterrent against the excesses of religion.

In this sense, I would even say atheism is the arrangement of God whether they are aware of this or not. Interestingly, according to scripture of another religion, the first and foremost quality out 16 qualities of spiritual person, is fearlessness which is the very basis of atheists.

7

The WTS thinks Jesus was a liar or an incompetent fool?

by TTWSYF in

the whole idea of a great apostasy means that jesus was lying [or he was a crazy fool] when he said that he would be with his church until the end of the age.

matt 28- 18then jesus came to them and said, “all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

19therefore go and make disciples of allnations, baptizing them in the name of the father,and of the son, and of the holy spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that i have commanded you.

venus

I agree with what Whynot said: “So many contradictions and made up ideas. Whose to say what his true intention was.”

For example, all churches take Mathew 10:28 to show soul is immortal whereas JWs apply it to show soul is mortal.

But when I examined the same word (apollumi, Greek) appearing in other places, I found that it only means ‘becoming like waste’ or living wastefully without knowing the purpose because the same word is used to mean ‘the new wine bursting the skins, spilling out and getting ruined’ (Luke 537), then of “lost sheep” (Luke 15:4, 6), “lost son” (Luke 15:24) …. None of them means eternal destruction. It can only mean, when used of persons, loss of well-being resulting from a purposeless life which is not in harmony with his very make up, “the image of God”. (Gen 1:27)

20

WT gives up on making disciples! No joke!

by nowwhat? in

yep, taps out, throws in the towel, waves the white flag!

in today's watchtower it basically said don't expect any results due to widespread apathy and opposition.

but you can still bear fruit just by going through the motions of being regular in field service.

venus

Witnessing by going to house to house was the only known method in the first century. Today more and effective witnessing could be done without resorting to house-to-house (or going out in person) using all available modes of communication. Going out in person is like using a boat to travel across a river even when there is a bridge just because one's ancestors used to cross that river by boat as there was no bridge in their time.

19

Lengthy letter re: End Time Events / read ONLY if you still believe in God.

by mother Teresa in

shalom,.

my mom's family is mostly jws.

during her second marriage, i attended the weekly meeting and sunday meetings (by my own choice) with a family in the very small town we lived, since my mom didn’t attend.

venus

Hi mother Teresa

You take Moses as a historical person because you follow the crowd. If your make an objective reading of first 5 books you will find many reasons to change your beliefs.

You also believe in the second advent of Jesus which the Bible said would happen in the generation of Bible writers themselves: "These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come" (1Cor 10:11)

In fact, this world has no problem, hence no need of ending it. What is really happening is that once this world was new with all the species now extinct, and now this world has become old, just like any tree becoming old in time. Becoming old is not a problem, but is a natural process meant for everything we know. Just like seed-tree-seed mechanism works eternally, the present old world would also become new not in the manner Scriptures describe; but the Supreme Seed, God Almighty would do it in His own way and in His own time. And because He is the Father of all mankind, He will do a perfect and just job giving no reason for anybody to feel unhappy.

What is the guarantee?

look at your own body, it is a living body. What is life? "Life is the principle of self-renewal, it is constantly renewing and remaking and changing." (Boris Pasternak)

If this can happen to our body, the same can happen to the earth, our mother or home whatever you may call it.

33

Child sacrifice and Jesus' sacrifice

by Whynot in

jeremiah 7:31 says, "they have built the high places of toʹpheth, which is in the valley of the son of hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that i had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’".

according to this scripture it's unthinkable for jehovah to be pleased with child sacrifices.

but yet he sent his son to be killed as a sacrifice for all?.

venus

I agree with Pistoff

Teaching of ransom is a problematic one.

1)If this teaching originated from God, then it would mean God reached rock-bottom without a solution to a simple problem, and son who gave his life becomes greater than the Father automatically as no part is played by the Father.

2)It would also mean God of justice could not come up with a just solution because humans are saved at the cost an innocent life—a teaching you cannot teach to your children.

3)It is incomprehensible that sin is fought with another sin (murder of an innocent person)

4)Above all, it is unnecessary because solution was already in existence “eye for an eye, tooth for tooth” which simply means ‘one has to reap what he sows’ (Galatians 6:7; Hosea 8:7)

33

Child sacrifice and Jesus' sacrifice

by Whynot in

jeremiah 7:31 says, "they have built the high places of toʹpheth, which is in the valley of the son of hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that i had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’".

according to this scripture it's unthinkable for jehovah to be pleased with child sacrifices.

but yet he sent his son to be killed as a sacrifice for all?.

venus

Hi Perry,

1) Please compare Mathew 20:25-28 and its parallel account found in Luke (Luke 22-25-27) which Luke himself says he wrote after carefully examining all the available sources 1:3

“You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 2and whoever wants to be first must be your slave— 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” (Mathew 20:25-28)

“The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them, and those in authority over them are called benefactors. But not so with you. Rather, let the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the leader as one who serves. For who is the greater, one who reclines at table or one who serves? Is it not the one who reclines at table? But I am among you as the one who serves. "(Luke 22:25-27)

2) John the Baptists is reported to have said: ““Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!” (John 1:29) John the Baptist would not say this because he is aware of what Jeremiah wrote in 7:22, 31; 8:8 and what Moses wrote in Deuteronomy 24:16; What Ezekiel wrote in 18:20 ….etc. all of which say ‘one person cannot atone for the sins of another person.’

Moreover, ideas are put into the mouth of John the Baptists by the same writer who wrote inherently contradictory verse found in John 3:13 which Jesus never made. For example, John the Baptists says he is not Elijah in John 1:21 which is flat rejection of what Jesus said in Mathew 11:14

3) Anyhow Jesus was sure that he was sent not die for the sins of the world: “Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a wine press in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and moved to another place. When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.

“The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third. Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way. Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.” (Mathew 21:33-37)