Posts by undercover

56

Southern California USA Congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses On High Alert

by JW GoneBad in

circuit overseers, elders, ministerial servants, pioneers and rank & file are stressed out over an ex-jw (kevin) who has visited nearly 20 congregations (orange county) and has high-jacked the opening prayers and done some effective witnessing before he is escorted to the back door.

and everything is caught on video!.

kevin is also visiting numerous jw cart locations from the los angeles area to orange county and giving a most effective wiitness at each location and they're all on video.

undercover

These stunts do some of us faded ones with family still in no favors either. While I'm fully out, it's a struggle to get family members to use critical thinking skills in all matters JW/WTS. Just when you think you've made some progress, they see crap like this, and it drives them back in further. It may not be a rational reaction on their part, but they're indoctrinated to fear opposers, so these stunts are counter productive when you get right down to it.

And similar to Simon's comment, and I've said it before as well - JWs have as much right to worship in their Kingdom Halls as do Baptists in their churches, Catholics in their churches, and Mormons in their places of worship. Singling out JWs for harassment is just sour grapes on an ex-member's part. The best revenge is living well, and leaving well enough alone.

39

BBC interview about 1975 - never heard this before..

by defender of truth in

for any lurkers who don't believe the watchtower taught that the world would end in 1975... rare jehovah's witnesses 1968 interview "armageddon and 1975" london watchtower rep speaks to bbc.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=npmt-ml-m-g. --------.

but where will this system of things be by that time?

undercover

Timely bump. Marking to refer to the info later

51

Did you ever have a discussion with an apostate that helped your journey out.

by jwfacts in

there seems to be a number of different ways that apostates try to get jehovah's witnesses realise they do not have the truth, ranging from subtle comments to aggressive attacks.

do you have any that looking back helped you finally leave.

some of the methods include:.

undercover

Depends on how you look at it, I guess. When I was fully 'in', I obeyed the WT law of avoiding apostates like the plague. Even when I started doubting, and questioning, I avoided apostate literature and websites.

In my early days of Internet searches, I kept stumbling onto apostate sites, including this one, but avoided them. Even when I accidentally clicked on a link that led me to a forum, I quickly left.

But, by the time I was truly on the way out, I started lurking on ex-JW forums. I read experiences, doctrinal debates, and really took to information from the greats of the time - Maximus, Farkel, AlanF. I still avoided some of the crazier looking sites. I was more interested in facts, not sensationalism.

By the time I posted here I knew deep down I was on the way out, but was trying to find answers to all my questions, yet not quite ready to let go. Cognitive dissonance and all that. So in that respect, I did invite apostates to have discussions with me.

8

silly observations from that '1975' video...

by undercover in

jw
friends

okay, so everyone is bent out of shape about how the wts is re-writing their history on their past failed predictions (1975).

other threads deal in all the evidence to tear apart their shameless propaganda, so i won't dwell on that here.. but, what i will do is list a couple of observations, silly as they are, that aren't about the propaganda so much as it is about the set design, and costume design.

feel free to add to the list.. early scene where the wife is dying.

undercover

Okay, so everyone is bent out of shape about how the WTS is re-writing their history on their past failed predictions (1975). Other threads deal in all the evidence to tear apart their shameless propaganda, so I won't dwell on that here.

But, what I will do is list a couple of observations, silly as they are, that aren't about the propaganda so much as it is about the set design, and costume design. Feel free to add to the list.

Early scene where the wife is dying. I'm guessing it's supposed to be in the 60s sometime, but it looks more like a depression era film. Stark rooms, with no art on the walls, no color to brighten things up. Looks like a scene from the Robert de Niro parts of the Godfather.

I read a post about the husband pulling up just short of kissing his dead wife. The comment I read was about the JW actor kissing someone not his wife, playing the dead wife, therefore it had to be stopped short.. I didn't see that. I saw an ever so subtle nod to the JW belief of not worshipping the dead. Kissing a dead body would be a no no in the strictest interpretation of JW law.

Now, let's fast forward a few years. Our film's hero, when he was still a young widower, is attending the KH all by his lonesome. Notice anything? Remember this is prior to 1975... he's doing his damndest to stay alive till then... But look! He's wearing fashionable (for 1974 anyway) suits/shirts/ties. Colored dress shirts, with loud (for a dub) ties. I guaran-damn-tee you that back in 1974, had a brother come into the hall dressing like this, he would have gotten an invite to the back room for a grooming reminder. (I know I did) Yet, there's a WTS version of Edith Head in JW.org productions dressing this guy up like he's hip and cool, just like all young JW widowers...

Even his haircut was daring. Sure, it's okay for a JW teenager of 74, but not a grown man, who should be reaching out for privileges. (sidebar - I remember as teenagers, one elder went around and pulled on our hair, If he could get a good hold on it, he'd say, 'time for a haircut'. Bastard)

I got the distinct impression that our JW lead man was supposed to be on the daring side of JWism. Stylish clothes (as such could exist in those days). Daring haircut (again, as such as could be had during the days of hippies and disco). And most of all - not going along with the 1975 hysteria. Yes - our hero of the film dared to be different. Instead of eventually going inactive, or apostate, he became the voice of reason to all JWs left in the fold.

6

One of My BIGGEST Regrets as a JW Was How I Accepted Dealing With Disfellowsipped Ones

by minimus in

jw
friends

looking back at it, it was shameful to treat human beings worse than a way we would treat a dog!

ignore people, treat them as dead...,it's so awful.

😞.

undercover

I've probably told this before, but a significant change in my attitude about JW rules came about when I shunned a guy I grew up with at his father's funeral.

I did as I was supposed to, and afterwards felt terrible. I asked myself why I felt so bad for doing the right thing. Then it hit me - I didn't do the right thing. I did the wrong thing. It was wrong to shun a friend I had known all my life at the lowest point of his life.

That was the last time I shunned DFd ones. Even though I was still 'in' and active for some years after that, I had made the decision that despite the WTS stance on shunning, I was going to follow Jesus' example on how to treat people, and not the Governing Body's.

162

2017 Convention Video To Be Shown Regarding The 1975 Failure

by pale.emperor in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go3arnnsfkk&feature=youtu.be.

no mention whatsoever that it was watchtower themselves that strongly hinted towards this date.

instead they blame those who "put their trust in a date, not jehovah".. let's recap... .

undercover

commenting to mark this thread.

I have one JW relative who admitted that the WTS led the flock to get all hyped up about 1975. I wonder if they'll 'adjust their thinking' to comply with this new propaganda...

34

Are there 'ultra strict' congregations?

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

when i studied as a young adult, it was in one of those congregations.

having viewed the religion as a quaint little band of christians it conpletely dumbfounded me when i was told about such rules as 1 - no beards.

2 - you must wear a suit to meetings and while giving a talk.

undercover

List of hang-ups that I remember (not complete, as I've forgotten more than I remember):

No sport jackets/dress pants. Must be a 'suit'

No 'colored' shirts. Must be white (relaxed later, but still applied for Sunday speakers)

No bowties. Had to be standard. (later, younger brothers got in hot water for the 80s skinny ties)

Socks had to be worn (thanks Miami Vice)

No beards, of course, but mustaches had to meet Bethel standards. No 'soul patches'

No 'flaired' dress pants on stage (mid 70s as Disco came to power)

No 'short' over jackets in field service. Had to be 'full' length (think trench coat).

No necklaces or bracelets for brothers

No pants for sisters, not just in service or at KH, but anytime in public. Pants were for house work or gardening.

Sisters HAD to wear stockings/hose...no bare legs

No sundresses for sisters. Cover those shoulders at all times

No dresses/skirts above the knee

No slits in long skirts. (basically Sharia law on sisters if you think about it. Surprised they didn't assign burkas)

2 door cars highly discouraged. They gave talks chastising anyone who purchased a sports car over a family sedan that could be used in service

Unmarried brother and sister in same car - sister to ride in back seat.

Unmarried brother and sister at hall - if they sat beside each other more than two meetings in a row, then the congregation should expect a marriage announcement (that is paraphrased from a CO's talk on the subject, I shit you not)

Okay, that's enough... the more I think about it, the more I'm taken back to that time.

15

What the heck is CLAM?

by undercover in

jw
friends

i guess it's a good thing that i've been 'out' of this crazy religion so long that i'm not hip to newer buzzwords.... ...like, clam i'm guessing it's not a fun time at the beach, looking for shells or whatnot.. so, what is clam?.

undercover

So it's an oxymoron then?

33

How many in your generation are still JW???

by Christian Gutierrez in

jw
friends

how many in your age group are still jehovahs witnesses?

from where we are at, there aren't many left.

each year it gets smaller and smaller haha .

undercover

Well, 'officially', or just 'faking it'? Even though I'm not associating with the people I grew up with, I do still have an idea of who's in and who's not. I'm amazed at how many of my peer group are still active. But out of that 'active' group, the vast majority are not 'reaching out'. They're just going through the motions. I sense that many of them don't really buy into it like our parents did, but just go along with it to keep the peace.

And these are people that were always on the verge of getting in major trouble when we were kids (some did), while I, for the most part, was a pretty well behaved JW kid (oh I had my moments but compared to the rest, I was Jesus). Now, I'm the one whispered about, feared and avoided, while they've all succumbed to being zombie robot dubs.

15

What the heck is CLAM?

by undercover in

jw
friends

i guess it's a good thing that i've been 'out' of this crazy religion so long that i'm not hip to newer buzzwords.... ...like, clam i'm guessing it's not a fun time at the beach, looking for shells or whatnot.. so, what is clam?.

undercover

I guess it's a good thing that I've been 'out' of this crazy religion so long that I'm not hip to newer buzzwords...

...like, CLAM I'm guessing it's not a fun time at the beach, looking for shells or whatnot.

So, what is CLAM?