undercover

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Posts by undercover

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  38

  Talk to my Dad about beards.

  by LovingLifeNow in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i spoke to my elder dad the other day, and he asked if i still am sporting a beard.

  i said yes, then i said, "i thought the society said its ok to have a neat trimmed beard now?

  " he said "no, no, no..if you read the article , it says in countries where it is accepted" so my response was "ummm, its pretty accepted here in america"..which he says "it reflects your spirituality" "if another wittness saw you, they would know you are weak"...i was like, "ok, i don't get it, and i follow christ/god, not men..." then he said in his hall" if a brother came in with a beard , he would not have privelages" then i just gave up, and tried to change the subject..ugggggggggg if these people would just listen to themselves , they would see the sillyness of there teachings...

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  undercover

  It's interesting how often the 'beard thing' comes up on exJW boards. With all the other scandals, erroneous doctrines, and other non-scriptural traditions, the beard subject draws more ire than any other two subjects together.

  And the reason is: the 'beard rule' is a microcosm of the WTS/JWs. We've latched on to this seemingly innocent thing because it demonstrates the authoritarian rule of the WTS over it's members. One cannot dictate to oneself this simple grooming choice. It has to be made for you. The same for your entertainment choices. Your celebrations. Even your level of education.

  When you're inside the religion, and allowing them to control your thinking and actions, you don't think about it. But as soon as you exert your freedom, this one minor thing sticks out as a huge signal that something is wrong with the ruling body of this group.
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  14

  Why do the scan of all publications? To find "gems" like these

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  from a very obscure tract called "the broadcaster", july 13, 1925:.

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  undercover

  The creation days have been of undefined length in JW mythology at least as far as I can remember.

  Your memory doesn't go back too far... Fortunately mine does. Each creative day is 7,000 years in length.

  One reference: From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained (1958). Page 10.

  Each creative day being only 7000 years long....Not to be confused with how old the Universe is
  Genesis 1:1 The creation of the Universe. Millions of years ago....

  Yes, that is the WT doctrine. Universe and planet Earth created millions of years ago. The 7,000 year creative periods started not too long ago (in a cosmic sense). Man created 6,000 (a little over now) years ago.

  These days they never mention the 7,000 creative day. They just say 'thousands of years' or 'long periods of time'. But - they have never retracted their previous statements. They have never refined those lengths of times. They have only blurred the lines in order to keep dubs ignorant.

  Their only scriptural defense for saying universe/earth created millions of years ago is Genesis 1:1 as already stated. However, that is vague, and purposely so on the WTS' part. Because in Exodus 20:11 it says, "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, all that is in them..." shooting down in one half verse the entire WT creation doctrine.
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  41

  Anyone read the latest Awake (on the supernatural)?

  by LoveUniHateExams in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just read some of this latest awake on the org's webshite.. it begins by talking about the 'supernatural' - wizards, witches, vampires, etc.

  - their popularity and why they might appeal to people.

  then it goes on to state the wt belief that someone is 'behind it'.. now, i like a few horror/scary films - when i was a kid, i always actually liked being a bit scared by them, tbh.. the silence of the lambs, a nightmare on elm street (1984), the ring, the witch, the thing (1982) and a few others are all great, imo.. they are just genres and subgenres of film, that's all.

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  undercover

  "Satanic human sacrifices are a slap in God's face."
  Divine human sacrifice (i.e., Jesus), however, is perfectly hunky-dory, and in fact is the most important thing that ever occurred.

  And blood transfusion denying child sacrifices is most pleasing to the Most High God that abhors child sacrifices to false gods.
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  82

  How Far Up The Ladder Did You Go In JW Land?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i pretty much did it all.

  vacation pioneered as a youngster and became a regular pioneer out of school.

  i became a ms then an elder.....the organization pushes you to be somebody within the confines of their realm.

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  undercover

  MS with a few bouts (like a recurring disease) of temporary/vacationing pioneering.

  I was in line to be an elder, but I didn't want it. I couldn't explain it at the time, other than as a still believing JW, that I wasn't ready, or zealous enough (actually now, I think it was my sub-conscious telling me 'something's wrong here...RUN!). CO visits and elder/MS schools raised more questions than answered. The last elder/MS school I went to was more about rules and protocol than anything scriptural. Another little hint that things were not as they seemed.
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  44

  2017 Convention Video Remember The Wife Of Lot

  by pale.emperor in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0qpoelk2r4.

  the dad in this is a total douche.

  i dont know if the videos have become more judgemental and culty in the year since i left - or maybe im just noticing it more?.

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  undercover

  How do y'all stomach sitting through this? I've tried twice, and can't get past the 5 minute mark.

  I should really try harder, so that I'm knowledgeable about it when JW family are tortured with it during the convention. But - it's just so bad.
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  56

  Southern California USA Congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses On High Alert

  by JW GoneBad in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  circuit overseers, elders, ministerial servants, pioneers and rank & file are stressed out over an ex-jw (kevin) who has visited nearly 20 congregations (orange county) and has high-jacked the opening prayers and done some effective witnessing before he is escorted to the back door.

  and everything is caught on video!.

  kevin is also visiting numerous jw cart locations from the los angeles area to orange county and giving a most effective wiitness at each location and they're all on video.

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  undercover

  These stunts do some of us faded ones with family still in no favors either. While I'm fully out, it's a struggle to get family members to use critical thinking skills in all matters JW/WTS. Just when you think you've made some progress, they see crap like this, and it drives them back in further. It may not be a rational reaction on their part, but they're indoctrinated to fear opposers, so these stunts are counter productive when you get right down to it.

  And similar to Simon's comment, and I've said it before as well - JWs have as much right to worship in their Kingdom Halls as do Baptists in their churches, Catholics in their churches, and Mormons in their places of worship. Singling out JWs for harassment is just sour grapes on an ex-member's part. The best revenge is living well, and leaving well enough alone.
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  39

  BBC interview about 1975 - never heard this before..

  by defender of truth in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for any lurkers who don't believe the watchtower taught that the world would end in 1975... rare jehovah's witnesses 1968 interview "armageddon and 1975" london watchtower rep speaks to bbc.

  http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=npmt-ml-m-g. --------.

  but where will this system of things be by that time?

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  undercover

  Timely bump. Marking to refer to the info later
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  51

  Did you ever have a discussion with an apostate that helped your journey out.

  by jwfacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  there seems to be a number of different ways that apostates try to get jehovah's witnesses realise they do not have the truth, ranging from subtle comments to aggressive attacks.

  do you have any that looking back helped you finally leave.

  some of the methods include:.

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  undercover

  Depends on how you look at it, I guess. When I was fully 'in', I obeyed the WT law of avoiding apostates like the plague. Even when I started doubting, and questioning, I avoided apostate literature and websites.

  In my early days of Internet searches, I kept stumbling onto apostate sites, including this one, but avoided them. Even when I accidentally clicked on a link that led me to a forum, I quickly left.

  But, by the time I was truly on the way out, I started lurking on ex-JW forums. I read experiences, doctrinal debates, and really took to information from the greats of the time - Maximus, Farkel, AlanF. I still avoided some of the crazier looking sites. I was more interested in facts, not sensationalism.

  By the time I posted here I knew deep down I was on the way out, but was trying to find answers to all my questions, yet not quite ready to let go. Cognitive dissonance and all that. So in that respect, I did invite apostates to have discussions with me.
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  8

  silly observations from that '1975' video...

  by undercover in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  okay, so everyone is bent out of shape about how the wts is re-writing their history on their past failed predictions (1975).

  other threads deal in all the evidence to tear apart their shameless propaganda, so i won't dwell on that here.. but, what i will do is list a couple of observations, silly as they are, that aren't about the propaganda so much as it is about the set design, and costume design.

  feel free to add to the list.. early scene where the wife is dying.

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  undercover

  Okay, so everyone is bent out of shape about how the WTS is re-writing their history on their past failed predictions (1975). Other threads deal in all the evidence to tear apart their shameless propaganda, so I won't dwell on that here.

  But, what I will do is list a couple of observations, silly as they are, that aren't about the propaganda so much as it is about the set design, and costume design. Feel free to add to the list.

  Early scene where the wife is dying. I'm guessing it's supposed to be in the 60s sometime, but it looks more like a depression era film. Stark rooms, with no art on the walls, no color to brighten things up. Looks like a scene from the Robert de Niro parts of the Godfather.

  I read a post about the husband pulling up just short of kissing his dead wife. The comment I read was about the JW actor kissing someone not his wife, playing the dead wife, therefore it had to be stopped short.. I didn't see that. I saw an ever so subtle nod to the JW belief of not worshipping the dead. Kissing a dead body would be a no no in the strictest interpretation of JW law.

  Now, let's fast forward a few years. Our film's hero, when he was still a young widower, is attending the KH all by his lonesome. Notice anything? Remember this is prior to 1975... he's doing his damndest to stay alive till then... But look! He's wearing fashionable (for 1974 anyway) suits/shirts/ties. Colored dress shirts, with loud (for a dub) ties. I guaran-damn-tee you that back in 1974, had a brother come into the hall dressing like this, he would have gotten an invite to the back room for a grooming reminder. (I know I did) Yet, there's a WTS version of Edith Head in JW.org productions dressing this guy up like he's hip and cool, just like all young JW widowers...

  Even his haircut was daring. Sure, it's okay for a JW teenager of 74, but not a grown man, who should be reaching out for privileges. (sidebar - I remember as teenagers, one elder went around and pulled on our hair, If he could get a good hold on it, he'd say, 'time for a haircut'. Bastard)

  I got the distinct impression that our JW lead man was supposed to be on the daring side of JWism. Stylish clothes (as such could exist in those days). Daring haircut (again, as such as could be had during the days of hippies and disco). And most of all - not going along with the 1975 hysteria. Yes - our hero of the film dared to be different. Instead of eventually going inactive, or apostate, he became the voice of reason to all JWs left in the fold.
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  6

  One of My BIGGEST Regrets as a JW Was How I Accepted Dealing With Disfellowsipped Ones

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  looking back at it, it was shameful to treat human beings worse than a way we would treat a dog!

  ignore people, treat them as dead...,it's so awful.

  😞.

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  undercover

  I've probably told this before, but a significant change in my attitude about JW rules came about when I shunned a guy I grew up with at his father's funeral.

  I did as I was supposed to, and afterwards felt terrible. I asked myself why I felt so bad for doing the right thing. Then it hit me - I didn't do the right thing. I did the wrong thing. It was wrong to shun a friend I had known all my life at the lowest point of his life.

  That was the last time I shunned DFd ones. Even though I was still 'in' and active for some years after that, I had made the decision that despite the WTS stance on shunning, I was going to follow Jesus' example on how to treat people, and not the Governing Body's.