Posts by undercover

5

Armenia’s Jehovah’s Witnesses: ‘enemies of the state’

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

tp://oc-media.org/armenias-jehovahs-witnesses-enemies-of-the-state/.

http://oc-media.org/armenias-jehovahs-witnesses-enemies-of-the-state/.

armenia’s jehovah’s witnesses: ‘enemies of the state’.

undercover

While I abhor religious (among other kinds of) intolerance, I find it hard to sympathize with this:

After she decided to join the Jehovah’s Witnesses, her life changed.
When Kristine’s in-laws found out that she had embraced a new faith, they first tried to convince her to abandon it. Later, they stopped visiting her family home.

That reads like it's right out of the WTS playbook. If you leave our faith, we will shun you. Wait until you raise your kid, and he leaves the JWs. You gonna treat him just like you were treated?

48

US Republican congressman, others injured by shooter in Washington DC

by sir82 in

jw
friends

tragic occurrence:.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/steve-scalise-shot-in-virginia-aide-also-hit/ar-bbcfakv?li=bbnb7kz.

i saw another report indicating that the gunman may have targetting gop members.

undercover

What they needed was a good guy with a gun. How's it feel when the gun is in the blue hand now?

But, yes it is a tragic occurrence. I hope the victims will be okay, and the shooter is prosecuted to the full extent of the law (if still alive).

30

Why is the approval of family so important?

by jwfacts in

one of the reasons people remain pimo is fear of losing family.

those that are disfellowshipped and shunned regularly comment about how devastated that they have lost the approval of their parents.. when i respond to emails from people saying how difficult it is being estranged or looked down on by their parents, i would like to say that over time they will come to terms with it, except i not sure that people ever do.

i cannot shake that feeling either.

undercover

For me, it's not the acceptance or approval of parents. I really don't care if they accept me or not. They're the ones that raised me in a cult. While they're victims themselves, they're responsible for a lot of my issues being raised this way. I haven't spoken to either of them in some time... and they live within just a few miles of me. I reach out to check on them occasionally, trying to be a dutiful son caring for elderly parents and all that, but they don't appreciate it. They never contact me for anything. So life goes on.

My wife is my importance. I con't crave her acceptance as much as I crave our relationship as a couple. And if I can get her mind free and clear of WT influence, then I will have accomplished my mission.

But I am not PIMO, I am POMO. So maybe that has something to do with it.

29

Disfellowshipped for being complicit in someone else's sin - really?!

by Isambard Crater in

a close friend of mine who is pimo (only staying in for family reasons) in a neighboring congregation called me in tears tonight saying her dad (elder) is telling her he is seriously considering reporting her to her local elders and she could get disfellowshipped.. the reason?

because she is complicit in a gross sin, according to him, by going with her best friend (not a j.w.

) when the friend had an abortion.

undercover

The "sin" is committed by a wordly person. Compare it to go with a wordly person into a tobaccoshop buying Cigarettes.

Not quite the same transgression. More like, 'compare it to being with a worldly person who murdered someone'. That makes you an accomplice. (Abortion being murder to Bible thumping folks)

However - 'worldly' laws are not addressed or punished in the congregation. Only 'theocratic' (JW version) laws are upheld. An example as told by a Circuit Overseer one time. He asked the elders what should they do if they found that a brother in the congregation was in possession of stolen goods. It was agreed by the elders and MSs that a judicial committee meeting would be in order. The CO said, 'wrong'. There is no biblical law broken by being in possession of stolen goods. While a crime to Caesar, it's not a 'crime' in the congregation, therefore would not be in the elder's jurisdiction to do anything about it.

This case though, a biblical law was broken in the presence of the JW (PIMO or otherwise). But, again, there is no 'accomplice' biblical law (that I'm aware of), so technically there's nothing they should be able to do, other than give her 'counsel'. But, then again, anyone can get DFd for anything three elders can decide on, so you still have to be wary.

23

Is there anything recent in the publications about Jesus only being the ransom for annointed?

by NikL in

i was trying to find something recent that i can show "still ins" in my sphere but it is proving harder than anticipated.. most of what i am seeing is couched in confusing goblygook wt style prattle.. my wife argues that it's not even true and i think that's the case with most jaydubs.. so i guess if it is a teaching that is being allowed to fade, maybe it's not worth pursuing?.

any of you scholars out there got anything recent clear and handy?.

undercover

As convoluted as most WTS doctrines are, this is one of the more convoluted. Jesus is ransom for all followers, but mediates only for the anointed. The anointed make up the Christian congregation; the rest are just supporters of this heavenly class of spiritual brothers to Christ.

This confusing teaching is why on one hand, you could argue that JWs (non-anointed) are not true Christians. They're just supporters of the anointed, and followers of Christ, but not technically members of their club.

On the other hand, the WTS never makes this definitive statement, but purposely leaves it obtuse. JWs consider themselves Christians based on their acceptance of Christ as their ransomer and leader. On that basis, then yea, they can be considered Christians.

I think this goes back to the early days of the WTS when they expected Armageddon early on, with only a limited number of adherents and survivors. They outgrew that expectation, and had to rewrite doctrine. But in true WTS style, they created a bigger mess than what they already had.

30

1914 is the Key !

by Phizzy in

i thought this deserved its own topic.

it is a thought that occurred to me as i read the wt rag that i took to be polite.. it is the public one about the 4 horseman, and it struck me that they are still 100% reliant on their false 1914 doctrine to hang everything on.. if 1914 is proved wrong, what can the credibility of their doomsday message hang on ?.

we all know how to disprove the old 2520 years nonsense, but they seem to at last be hiding that, and simply claiming that world events prove jesus slung the devil out of heaven in 1914.. so, what has that old devil done since 1914, 103 years ago ?.

undercover

Some JWs believe it's "the truth" simply because that phrase is used over and over again in all the mags and meetings.

Because they aren't intellectually honest enough with themselves to prove their own faith to themselves. It's been drummed in their heads for so long, that they just accept whatever is disseminated from the platform or literature as gospel, and never give thought to any other options.

They have no interest in knowledge or truth. It's easier to show up at a KH, and have the shit shoveled for you.

38

Talk to my Dad about beards.

by LovingLifeNow in

jw
friends

so i spoke to my elder dad the other day, and he asked if i still am sporting a beard.

i said yes, then i said, "i thought the society said its ok to have a neat trimmed beard now?

" he said "no, no, no..if you read the article , it says in countries where it is accepted" so my response was "ummm, its pretty accepted here in america"..which he says "it reflects your spirituality" "if another wittness saw you, they would know you are weak"...i was like, "ok, i don't get it, and i follow christ/god, not men..." then he said in his hall" if a brother came in with a beard , he would not have privelages" then i just gave up, and tried to change the subject..ugggggggggg if these people would just listen to themselves , they would see the sillyness of there teachings...

undercover

It's interesting how often the 'beard thing' comes up on exJW boards. With all the other scandals, erroneous doctrines, and other non-scriptural traditions, the beard subject draws more ire than any other two subjects together.

And the reason is: the 'beard rule' is a microcosm of the WTS/JWs. We've latched on to this seemingly innocent thing because it demonstrates the authoritarian rule of the WTS over it's members. One cannot dictate to oneself this simple grooming choice. It has to be made for you. The same for your entertainment choices. Your celebrations. Even your level of education.

When you're inside the religion, and allowing them to control your thinking and actions, you don't think about it. But as soon as you exert your freedom, this one minor thing sticks out as a huge signal that something is wrong with the ruling body of this group.

14

Why do the scan of all publications? To find "gems" like these

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

from a very obscure tract called "the broadcaster", july 13, 1925:.

undercover

The creation days have been of undefined length in JW mythology at least as far as I can remember.

Your memory doesn't go back too far... Fortunately mine does. Each creative day is 7,000 years in length.

One reference: From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained (1958). Page 10.

Each creative day being only 7000 years long....Not to be confused with how old the Universe is
Genesis 1:1 The creation of the Universe. Millions of years ago....

Yes, that is the WT doctrine. Universe and planet Earth created millions of years ago. The 7,000 year creative periods started not too long ago (in a cosmic sense). Man created 6,000 (a little over now) years ago.

These days they never mention the 7,000 creative day. They just say 'thousands of years' or 'long periods of time'. But - they have never retracted their previous statements. They have never refined those lengths of times. They have only blurred the lines in order to keep dubs ignorant.

Their only scriptural defense for saying universe/earth created millions of years ago is Genesis 1:1 as already stated. However, that is vague, and purposely so on the WTS' part. Because in Exodus 20:11 it says, "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, all that is in them..." shooting down in one half verse the entire WT creation doctrine.

41

Anyone read the latest Awake (on the supernatural)?

by LoveUniHateExams in

just read some of this latest awake on the org's webshite.. it begins by talking about the 'supernatural' - wizards, witches, vampires, etc.

- their popularity and why they might appeal to people.

then it goes on to state the wt belief that someone is 'behind it'.. now, i like a few horror/scary films - when i was a kid, i always actually liked being a bit scared by them, tbh.. the silence of the lambs, a nightmare on elm street (1984), the ring, the witch, the thing (1982) and a few others are all great, imo.. they are just genres and subgenres of film, that's all.

undercover

"Satanic human sacrifices are a slap in God's face."
Divine human sacrifice (i.e., Jesus), however, is perfectly hunky-dory, and in fact is the most important thing that ever occurred.

And blood transfusion denying child sacrifices is most pleasing to the Most High God that abhors child sacrifices to false gods.

82

How Far Up The Ladder Did You Go In JW Land?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i pretty much did it all.

vacation pioneered as a youngster and became a regular pioneer out of school.

i became a ms then an elder.....the organization pushes you to be somebody within the confines of their realm.

undercover

MS with a few bouts (like a recurring disease) of temporary/vacationing pioneering.

I was in line to be an elder, but I didn't want it. I couldn't explain it at the time, other than as a still believing JW, that I wasn't ready, or zealous enough (actually now, I think it was my sub-conscious telling me 'something's wrong here...RUN!). CO visits and elder/MS schools raised more questions than answered. The last elder/MS school I went to was more about rules and protocol than anything scriptural. Another little hint that things were not as they seemed.