Posts by undercover

35

Having children ??? did the Watchtower have an affect on your decisions ???

by run dont walk in

i remember growing up and thinking that there was no way i would have kids ......... why ???

....... because i did not want to raise them the way i was raised, in the borg.

i went through hell, why put a defenceless child through that.

undercover

Personally, the Watchtower rhetoric contributed to my decision not to have children some before I left. But now I still don't have the desire. Some might blame the Watchtower for taken the desire out of me. But I have never had the desire, don't have the desire now, and I don't ever anticipate having the desire. Parenting is the most important job a person can do, and I just don't want to do the work.

I have the exact same sentiments. Maybe growing up as a JW subconsciencly affected my desire for children, maybe not. But even as a kid, I could see that a lot of parents were not happy having children. I could see that their life was put on hold because they had to dedicate everything to raising this child. I could see the tiredness and frustration. I heard the complaints and the stories of unfulfilled dreams. I knew at an early age that I did not want to go through that. I think the WTS knew that children distracted people from being "whole-souled"(read under complete control) in their service to Jehovah(read the organization). That's why they admonished everyone to not have children.

I remember that talk at the DC sometime in the 80s. I remember a lot of the friends were upset by it. I didn't complain though. It made sense to me. I bought into the whole scenerio. If you know Armaggedon is coming and that terrible persecution is coming, why in the world would you want to bring a child into the picture? I remember people complaining about how the Society doesn't have the right to dictate if we should have children or not and I would always agree with the Society saying, "Could you watch as your child is taken away from you? Could you stand to watch your child beaten or even killed?". Looking back, I see that I bought into the whole doomsday thing, only to realize many years later how wrong it was and how damaging this was to many people in more ways than just deciding to have kids or not.

15

50 years from now ! What will the Watchtower say about the 1990's 2000's ?

by run dont walk in

if russell , rutherford and even knorr's work is considered misinterpeted, or overzealous, or they didn't have a complete understanding of the scriptures (even though they were of the annoited class).

can or will the same be said 50 years from now about today's publications.. this really intrigues me, i love reading the history of the watchtower and looking back at some of the beliefs and predictions.

i really appreciate the 1975 stuff more today then ever.

undercover

Excellent post, OldHippie. I know how that feels. Half my life wasted, for what? My youth, energy and time spent waiting for something that isn't going to happen. Even now, sometimes I feel like I'm in limbo, I'm not a JW, but I'm not free of them either. So my time is still wasting away in this limbo hell. I may never be free of it completely and it is starting to piss me off more and more as time goes by.

Someone else posted earlier, "what's another 50 years out of 2000?". Good question, but if you think about it, 2000 years isn't such a long time when one is talking about the end of the world. The WTS has spent roughly 5% of the last 2000 years preaching that the end is coming anytime. The higher that percentage goes, the less serious anyone will take them.

73

Question for elders or ex elders

by northern girl in

jw
friends

could anyone tell me what the policy is when a dfed person wants reinstatement?

are they questioned about their behavior while dfed or does that have any relevance since they were outside wts policy during that time?.

northern girl.. .

undercover

NG,

Do you believe that the Anointed Remnant, particularly the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is the Faithful and Discreet Slave dispensing needed spiritual food at the proper time as revealed by Jehovah through Christ Jesus and this Slave class? Do you accept all teachings, unique to Jehovah's Witnesses as the true doctrine in worshipping the only true God, Jehovah? If so, and if you show repentance enough to convince your Judicial Commitee then you may be re-instated.

I am curious as to how you became convinced that Jehovah's Witnesses is the only true religion. How do you refute discrepencies in their history and doctrine? Please understand, I am not ridiculing you. If you believe it, then do it. But to believe something that strong to go back to it, then you have to be able to convince not only yourself but be able make a stand and defend your religion and it's doctrines. How would you convince me that I am wrong and that you are right? I am willing to listen to your defense and promise to not ridicule it or try to change your mind.

42

WATCHTOWER WARNING: Mobile Phones

by DevonMcBride in

jw
friends

.

http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/2002/10/22/article_01.htm

they are now paranoid about mobile phones.

undercover

Regularly talking to or exchanging messages with a member of the opposite sex over the phone could be a form of dating.

WTF?? This crazy religion. Everything is wrong. Everything is suspect. Talking to the opposite sex is dating. Dating leads to petting and necking. Petting and necking leads to sex. Sex is wrong. Well, IF you get married, sex is ok(just ok tho). Outside of that, don't talk to the opposite sex. Don't touch(including hugging) the opposite sex. Don't look at the opposite sex. Don't sit next to the opposite sex at meetings/assemblies.

I was in the mall the other day and I saw a group of teenages run into another group of teenagers. They apparently don't see each other that much. They ran up to each other, hugged, held hands, arms around each other, guys and girls. They seemed so normal, happy and cheerful. It hit me as I watched them that I have never seen a group of JW youths embrace each other that way. I have never seen that much joy out of any group of JWs when they run into friends, whether at the meeting, the conventions, the mall or whereever. It made me think that JWs don't have real joy. In fact, joy is robbed from them because of the insipid little rules laid down by the WTS.

36

Convention Concessions

by Euphemism in

jw
friends

here's a question for you all... why does the society insist that all concession stands be closed at their convention facilities?.

i can understand that back when they provided their own food service, they would not want the competition.

(and in all fairness, their service was undoubtedly cheaper for the friends, many of whom have limited funds.

undercover

Beer at assemblies. That would have been fun.

This year, during the lunch break on Friday, I found a bar down the street from the coliseum, went in and had a couple of beers, so that I would be nice and relaxed to listen to the talk on alchohol abuse during the afternoon session.

50

What did you hope for just to avoid Saturday witnessing?

by BLISSISIGNORANCE in

last night we had a hell of a storm here.

there was thunder, lightning, pouring rain and wind.

personally i love stormy nights, cuddled up to hubby in a warm bed.

undercover

Heavy rain. Plain ole rain wasn't enough to stop my parents. It had to be flood warning stage. Flood watch meant to wear your rubbers. I remember getting a door in pouring rain and the householder just looked at me and shook his head. I read his mind to say, "You people don't even have sense enough to get in out of the rain". It was one of those events that I filed in the back of my head that made perfect sense later on.

A few Saturdays ago I was out washing vehicles when I saw a strange car park up the street aways. Four females of various ages, from young to adult, spilled out of the car and went two by two to some houses. I knew they were witnesses. I felt so sorry for the young little girls. A beautiful Satuday afternoon, the kind spent at the lake or at the pool, but here they were in long dresses walking from door to door, pedeling magazines. It was sad.

36

Convention Concessions

by Euphemism in

jw
friends

here's a question for you all... why does the society insist that all concession stands be closed at their convention facilities?.

i can understand that back when they provided their own food service, they would not want the competition.

(and in all fairness, their service was undoubtedly cheaper for the friends, many of whom have limited funds.

undercover

I'm gonna guess(and it's only a guess);

The city would probably want to have the concessions open the entire day. This would cause a distraction during the sessions as people would go get a hot dog or popcorn during the talk on apostates instead of listening. If the city agreed to have the concessions open only during the breaks, then I don't see a problem with it myself(other than you've got "worldly" people mixing in with "true worshippers").

Another guess is that maybe the WTS gets a break on the rental by not having to have the concession stands in use for those days thus the concession employees are not in use, saving the city money on the salaries that would have been paid.

One other guess(more on the conspiracy end) is to keep tighter control on what the dubs do with their money during the day. If they bring a cheap lunch then they've got more money to drop in the contribution box.

19

Convention Report

by Euphemism in

jw
friends

i just got back from my convention yesterday evening.

i'll be trying to catch up on the posts as time allows, but there is a very large volume; so if i miss any personal replies, please forgive me.. this was my first convention since i became mentally free, and it was just painful to sit through.

i used to be one of those dubs who actually enjoyed conventions.

undercover

What struck me the most was how the drama could be reinterpreted... with the JWs in the role of the Sanhedrin, and 'apostates' in the role of the Christians. The apostles justify publicly exposing the Pharisees, saying such things as: "These people believe that the Sanhedrin speaks for God, just like we used to believe. If they don't know the truth, they'll never come to believe in Jesus." And the Pharisees angrily say to a Christian on trial: "You are one who willfully opposes the arrangement of Jehovah." Sounds spookily familiar.

I had that same exact thought as I watched the drama. Funny how Peter and John are righteous for standing up to the Sanhedrin(who considered themselves Jehovah's spokesmen) but any today who stand up to the WTS(who consider themselves Jehovah's spokesmen) are treated as evil and apostate.

40

Fw: As Bro Sydlick was saying the closing prayer

by NikL in

jw
friends

i just had to pass this on to you.. it is an e mail that is making the rounds.. what do you think of this.... (beware!

gagging may be expected).

the 41,000 friends at the international convention in michigan .

undercover

I never met the man(or any of the GB) but I have heard several of them from the stage. I ignore the rumors and gossip from Bethel.

To me, Sydlik was the most down to earth acting of any of the GB that I had heard speak. He would crack a joke or speak from the heart. I remember him saying things that no elder could ever get away with. But even though I enjoyed his talks, I sensed an underlying power trip was being played out. He liked the attention. He wanted the attention. I sensed that he knew that the average dub liked him more than the other members of the GB. On this popularity, he sought to gain even more attention. His crying jag at the DC lends itself to my theory. How else to make the brethren adore you even more than to break down in prayer to show how humble and meek you are? In short, I believe it to be an act. I have no proof, no circumstantial evidence, but from hearing him speak and watching him work the crowd in person, I have to go with that theory until proven wrong.

147

586/587 the K.I.S.S. approach --- no VAT4956, Ptolemy, Josephus needed

by Alleymom in

nabonidus -- 17 years.

nebuchadnezzar -- 43 years.

nabonidus -- 17 years

undercover

Sorry, wish it were that simple, but it's not. The Babylonian records give one set of dates, but other references give different dates for these kings, including the Bible. So if you're saying lets just go with the post-dated records for these kings without question from the Seleucid Period and late Persian period, then you'll come up with one simple chronology; and those are well-documented.
Problem is, it is these very documents that are in contest for being accurate and we have other sources telling us differently regarding these kings.

This chronology using the Babylonian records of the kingships is a well-established chronology, but it is precisely the one being criticized because it does not agree with the Bible's chronology nor that of Josephus.

You can argue all day about the records being correct or not, but her point is that the WTS accepts the Babylonian records and by using those records you can disprove their own 607 theory. It doesn't matter if the records are right or not. The WTS has accepted them as right. If the records are wrong then the WTS has accepted wrong information as correct. I don't think God's earthly organization would be allowed to make that kind of mistake. If the records are correct, then the WTS chronology trying to prove 607 to 1914 is wrong. Either way, they have erred and obviously do not know as much about Bible history or chronology as they pretend. Would God allow his true worshippers to be that confused and allow them to broadcast false information as gospel truth?