Posts by undercover

10

I need help

by kls in

jw
friends

i need some watchtower articles stating ,the only people who will make it into the new system are jws.my husband keeps saying that jws dont even know who will make it.i know he is lieing and i tell him that he must love himself alot to want to forget his family to live in the new system without us.he also asked me what is the difference if he went to church?he says they are trying to get to heaven.anyone who can help answer these i can use all the help i can .i told him even if i believed the jws.barf,i would not want to be one .i would rather die with my family.

thanks kls

undercover

*** w71 1/15 pp. 63-64 Questions from Readers ***
Questions from Readers
• Can it be stated flatly that only baptized witnesses of Jehovah will survive Armageddon?—A. S., U.S.A.

A simple yes or no answer will suffice, thank you.

It would be misleading to answer this question with either a simple "Yes" or a "No." The Scriptural answer of necessity must be a "qualified" one, and it is easy to see why.

So easy that we are going to spend another five paragraphs to do so.

At 1 Corinthians 7:14 the Bible shows that God can consider as "holy" the minor children of a Christian parent. Though they are young and not yet to the point of being personally responsible to Jehovah, their parent is trying to develop in them a love of God and of the way of righteousness. It seems clear that at the time of the destructive war of Armageddon God will preserve them on the basis of the family merit of the Christian parent, even though the children are not yet dedicated and baptized.

Okay, un-baptized kids are in.

The reply must also be "qualified" because the Bible does not pointedly say how God is going to handle certain unusual cases, such as those involving mentally retarded persons who never had the capacity to learn about Jehovah and his purposes. Regarding these unbaptized persons, it is possible that family merit may apply as in the case of minor, irresponsible children who have a faithful believing parent or guardian.

Okay, handicapped people "might" be spared.

Nonetheless, these special instances do not diminish in any way the importance of dedication and baptism for those desiring God’s favor and protection through the destructive climax of this wicked system of things. God urges those truly interested in survival to seek righteousness and to call on him in faith. (Zeph. 2:2, 3; Joel 2:32) That obviously means that a person must do all in his power to do God’s will. And what is that will as regards baptism?

Don't try for a "Section 8". It won't wash.

Jesus was baptized in water, setting an example for Christians. (Matt. 3:13-17; 1 Pet. 2:21) Among his final instructions to his disciples is the command to "make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them." (Matt. 28:19, 20) And one has but to read the book of Acts to see that early Christians recognized that baptism was a necessary step of obedience for all desiring God’s favor.—Acts 2:37-41; 16:30-33.

Jesus got baptized, so you gotta get baptized(even though outside the 144,000, you aren't really sons of God).

Neither the Watch Tower Society nor any human today can lessen the force of that indication of God’s will. There appears to be no Biblical reason for thinking that a person who had a reasonable knowledge of Bible truth and knew the importance of dedicating his life to God and being baptized, but who held back from doing so, would be preserved by God through the coming destruction.

Well, why didn't you say that to begin with. The answer is, except for kids and handicapped people, YES!

29

Qualifications of Elders

by iiz2cool in

jw
friends

in my experience with elders in the past i was counseled for many things, most trivial and stupid, but some were serious issues.

one thing i noticed was that the elders always seemed to approach issues with some preconceived ideas, or they would try to read between the lines rather than actually listen to what i was saying.

others i know have had similar experiences.

undercover

I stand by what I said there are one or two elders who are trained mental health specialists for example -- I could quote others and name congregations but then it would reveal my identity --- again I stand by what I said they are there but very rare -- when I say qualified I mean by worlds standards. They do get looked down upon by other elders it is true.

Thanks for clarifying. So there are some qualified elders out there. A few. Very few. And you konw they have a hard time dealing with the rest of the elder body, because their "worldly" training tells them one thing, while the other elders and the WTS tells them another. Not an envious position to be in.

25

Are cats for true Christians?

by tonyend in

is it my imagination or do some witnesses overthink things a bit too much?

although this is most likely meant as a joke, it well illustrates jw thinking on a lot of matters.

http://dbhome.dk/carlo/cat.htm

undercover

When you know that this is a parody, you laugh, but it's funny because it is so WT like. Those that read it and fall for the gag, well who can blame them? This is written exactly like an article from the WTS. This parody may be on cats, but the line of reasoning is the same as other things that are just as ridiculous but yet the WTS sees fit to print their viewpoint as Bible truth.

29

Qualifications of Elders

by iiz2cool in

jw
friends

in my experience with elders in the past i was counseled for many things, most trivial and stupid, but some were serious issues.

one thing i noticed was that the elders always seemed to approach issues with some preconceived ideas, or they would try to read between the lines rather than actually listen to what i was saying.

others i know have had similar experiences.

undercover

Yes I have met elders that are truly qualified --but they are extremely rare

Truly qualified by whose standards? If a child accuses a family member of sexual abuse, is any elder trained by the WTS truly qualified to handle this situation? The elder may truly care about the child's well-being and safety and may try to do the best that he can with what he has(training wise), but is that enough?

I have known a couple of elders that were good elders. They were merciful, caring and fair. I truly respected these elders. But of these elders that I did trust, none were trained or qualified to handle the emotional, physical and spiritual damage of an abused(sexual or otherwise) person. Nothing against those elders. They would want to do the right thing, but their training is lacking and so is support from the WTS.

21

Update on my DAing

by be wise in

the elders have received my da letter.

i was going to post it but they didnt have a mail box so i decided to hand it in personally.

i headed off to the kh after the meeting had started.

undercover

It suddenly hit me that nothing had changed.... ....i t was if I was suddenly stuck in a time warp, very strange because I got a reminder of some of the old feelings that I had forgotten about – my memory of it all suddenly came back but it was all so predictable (and a bit eerie I might add).
I was expecting change to be honest. You know you hear of all this so-called change and progress from JW’s and their literature, the organisation is changing (blah, blah), but I realised it was exactly the same thing it always used to be. Don’t know if anyone else felt this way?

I know the feeling. Time warp is the perfect terminology. You can forget what year it is, sitting and listening to the same old dribble rehashed. Not just the platform parts, but the "social aspect" before and after also. The same conversations, year in and year out.

Even when the WTS makes a change(like the generation thing), there will be a flurry of talk, then everything dies back down to the dull norm.

Not to mention the same brothers wearing the same suits, year after year after year after......

29

Qualifications of Elders

by iiz2cool in

jw
friends

in my experience with elders in the past i was counseled for many things, most trivial and stupid, but some were serious issues.

one thing i noticed was that the elders always seemed to approach issues with some preconceived ideas, or they would try to read between the lines rather than actually listen to what i was saying.

others i know have had similar experiences.

undercover

The problem is that JWs are taught that worldly wisdom and philosphophy are from Satan. So for an elder to seek outside training on how to deal with a lot of these problems would fly against all that he was taught by the WTS.

Those inside the organization have been fooled into thinking that the WTS, through God's Spirit, has all the answers. Those who have managed to break free from this control see the folly of this. But there is no easy way to show one still under that control that the answers aren't in the organization.

27

Question about Governing Body

by figureheaduk in

i remember flicking through my ex girlfriends copy of the "proclaimers" book back last year, and there was a page with the pictures of the gb at the time (roundabout 1992 with henschel, jaracz et al).

apart from noticing that the gb was totally comprised of males (well, with the wt's almost neanderthalitic view of women, you wouldnt expect a female contingent within the gb would you?

), i noticed that they all seemed to be white, and, judging by some of the names, probably american.

undercover

Actually, churches are the most unintegrated institutions in the US. While few--if any--churches practice explicit segregation, in practice blacks and whites almost always attend different churches.

Yes, I have to agree with that. The A.M.E. Zion church will be a couple of blocks away from the Calvary Baptist church. No whites at the Zion church and few if any blacks at the Calvary church.

Maybe I should have clarified a little better. The phrase:

Today, congregations are completely integrated but they were no quicker than the rest of the United States in doing so.

was meant to mean the United States as a nation as it pursued civil rights and not necessarily the churchs within.

27

Question about Governing Body

by figureheaduk in

i remember flicking through my ex girlfriends copy of the "proclaimers" book back last year, and there was a page with the pictures of the gb at the time (roundabout 1992 with henschel, jaracz et al).

apart from noticing that the gb was totally comprised of males (well, with the wt's almost neanderthalitic view of women, you wouldnt expect a female contingent within the gb would you?

), i noticed that they all seemed to be white, and, judging by some of the names, probably american.

undercover

Sure took long enough. One would think that Jah's Org would be ahead of its time on stuff like that, but I guess not.

New light. Way back in the olden days, under Russell, I think, there was an article in the WT on the i nferiority of the Negro.

Pretty disgusting really. If they truly had God's view, there would have been racial equality in the WTS. Long before most of the rest of the world.

I remember when I was a kid in the South(US), most of the halls were segregated. By individual choice or by WTS design, I don't know. It wasn't until the 70's that brothers/families were asked to change congregations so as to "mix up" the races. Today, congregations are completely integrated but they were no quicker than the rest of the United States in doing so.

42

Deep Down Inside, Are You Prejudiced???

by minimus in

jw
friends

if you can be really honest with yourself, do you think that you exercise prejudice at times?

are you a person that makes disparaging remarks about certain groups because they are different from you?

if you feel that you're not a prejudiced person, do you see yourself stereotyping?

undercover

they still refer to the Civil War as "the War Between the States"??

That and, "The War of Northern Aggression"

Yes, as hard as I try at times, I do have some prejudices. I know that not all of any race or creed can be stereotyped, but when you see someone one of a certain race live up to a stereotype, you will find yourself having those negative thoughts.

51

Update on study with Elder....

by shotgun in

i took the advice of the forum and informed him i wouldlike to study the bible.

he arrived case in hand and pulled out the draw close to jehovah publication.. i said i thought we were going to study the bible...he then said well this is a bible publication...i said has not past publications contained errors and changes in teachings while the bible remains true.

he said yesssss.......do you have something inparticular you want to look at in the bible.....i said i thought we could start in matthew and work our way through.

undercover

You ask about my comments on JCanon's views on chronology. Simply speaking his views are rubbish, he has no academic credentials and hides behind a stupid nickname. I cannot regard him or his chronology with any respect. I would prefer to deal with the Jonsson hypothesis as then I know what devil I am dealing with.

Who at the WTS has academic credentials? None of the GB has degrees in religion, history, archeology, etc. Does this mean that we should consider their views as rubbish? Does this mean we cannot regard their chronology with any respect? By your reasoning we would have to assume so.