Posts by undercover

96

587 BC for Total Dunderheads

by Farkel in

if you're a dunderhead on neo-babylonian history (like me) you've probably remained totally clueless whenever the subject of the chronology leading to back 607 b.c.

since i had nothing better to do today, i decided to finally take the time it takes to understand why dub chronology on that date is wrong.

this piece of information alone should give you a clue about how bored i am!.

undercover

So those true believes have two dilemmas: Biblically tie Jesus' statement about the Gentile Times tying in with Daniel 4. If you can't do that, the whole 1914 theology collapses. Second, Biblically tie the year 607 BC as being the year Jerusalem was crushed by Nebuchadnezzer. If you can't do that, the whole 1914 theology collapses.
It's not just about dates, folks. It's more importantly about the "Gentile Times." If the Gentile Times does not Biblically tie to Daniel 4, it is meaningless to talk about dates.

Another reason the date doesn't matter: Neither date works with what the WTS says about how to calculate the end of the Gentile Times.

Let's say the WTS is right. Just for giggles. The temple was destroyed in 607. How do you get to 1914 from 607? Well, the seven times prophecy. What's a time? According to the WTS a time is 360 days. How do you get seven? I don't remember, suffice it to say the WTS says so. (I don't have all my references handy, so I'm going by memory. No scriptures, no WTS references). Well, if a time is 360 days, the seven times would be 2520 days. Now, that doesn't add up to 1914, does it? But wait. According to the WTS, there is a Bible rule about a year for a day, so then the seven "times" would be 360 x 7 = 2520 years. 2520 years from 607 equals 1914. Simple, right?

WRONG! 607 to 1914 is 2520 years of 365 days. It's already been establised that a "time" is 360 days. You can't change the constant. So the seven times is 2520 "times" or years of 360 day years. The difference is about 35 years. It doesn't add up to 1914.

How many other reasons does one need to see that 1914 is bogus?

40

Jehovah's Witnesses Are The Best Liars

by minimus in

jw
friends

i say that because we have been trained to lie and not even give it a second thought!

we might intially call it "theocratic strategy" and we may utilize this "provision" so that the "good news" might be spread.

but more often than not, we bend the rules as we see fit, reasoning that it's not really lying, afterall!

undercover

WHO SAID THEY ARE ALL LIARS?

I don't think anybody said "they are all liars". It was stated that they "are the best liars". That could be argued also I guess, but the point was that despite their outward appearances, many JWs have dirty little secrects that no one knows about. They manage to go about their everyday theocratic activities without a pang of conscience. This is what makes them good liars.

23

The Watchtower is Frightened ...of Biblical Flags!

by metatron in

in the aug. 1 wt, in a secondary article on numbers, the following paragraph appears:.

"what were "the signs" around which the three-tribe divisions were to encamp in the wilderness?.

the bible does not give a description of what these signs were.

undercover

On the other hand, if no ceremony accompanies the raising or lowering of the flag, then these actions constitute nothing more than performing such tasks as preparing the building for use, unlocking and locking the doors, and opening and closing the windows. In such instances, the flag is simply an emblem of the State, and raising or lowering it among other routine tasks is a matter for personal decision based on the dictates of one?s Bible-trained conscience"

That didn't used to be the thinking. I remember as a child that our school had two boys raise and lower the flag each day. This duty was assigned to two different boys each day. I remember having to try to explain why I couldn't share in this idolatry. It didn't go over very well. Even now when I see a flag in certain situations those memories come back. After 9/11 our company put up a flag(they never had one before) and I remember driving in to work and seeing it. The first irrational thought through my head was, "oh no, I hope they don't ask me to raise or lower it". Irrational, yes. But it shows how strong the indoctrination of anti-flag thinking was embedded in my brain.

40

Jehovah's Witnesses Are The Best Liars

by minimus in

jw
friends

i say that because we have been trained to lie and not even give it a second thought!

we might intially call it "theocratic strategy" and we may utilize this "provision" so that the "good news" might be spread.

but more often than not, we bend the rules as we see fit, reasoning that it's not really lying, afterall!

undercover

The problem is---the elder will be the 1st guy to get righteously indignant over the breaking of a Wt. rule. The wife will viciously dissect another brother's or sister's percieved shortcomings. It's not "good for them" that they're living a double life unless they afford the same courtesy to everyone else!

Okay, now that is a problem. It's one thing to be sneaky, underhanded and plain don't give a damn what the WTS says. It's another when you're being hypocritical about it and try to force others into obeying when you yourself aren't. Can't abide by that. He might be on a power trip. Unfortunately a lot of elders give into the evil side of the power trip. Just makes things harder on the R&F. Makes it harder for regular pubs to be sneaky and underhanded too.

UNDERCOVER, Thanks for helping not kill the thread!

Anytime, red dot.

40

Jehovah's Witnesses Are The Best Liars

by minimus in

jw
friends

i say that because we have been trained to lie and not even give it a second thought!

we might intially call it "theocratic strategy" and we may utilize this "provision" so that the "good news" might be spread.

but more often than not, we bend the rules as we see fit, reasoning that it's not really lying, afterall!

undercover

just posting so that Elsewhere doesn't kill this thread.

40

Jehovah's Witnesses Are The Best Liars

by minimus in

jw
friends

i say that because we have been trained to lie and not even give it a second thought!

we might intially call it "theocratic strategy" and we may utilize this "provision" so that the "good news" might be spread.

but more often than not, we bend the rules as we see fit, reasoning that it's not really lying, afterall!

undercover

I think more and more people, whether consciencly or subconsciencly, have less and less respect for and faith in the WTS. They may go through the motions and even deceive themselves and each other into thinking they are good JWs but their attitudes and actions are slowly, bit by bit, over time, showing otherwise. JWs today, for the most part, are blending in today's society better than ever. Yea, there will always be over-zealous, super-righteous types but ever religion has those. The WTS is coming to a crossroads in the next 20 years: reform and become more mainstream, or remain hardcore and plan on a mass exodus of their followers.

So these people sell cigs and lottery tix without any moral dilemmas. Good for them. They keep their store, make a living. So they have to be sneaky and underhanded so the WTS doesn't hunt them down. Good for them. Over time, more and more JWs will resort to more and more of these type things. As that happens, the WTS loses power over their followers. They lose power, they lose money, they lose influence. Good.

8

Can a jw go to a religious Hospital?

by kls in

many hospitals have names after saints, can they in good conscience go there for medical treatment?

or is it like anything else,,,,,,, well it is just a name ,or it is not b-day cake it is just cake .

or it is just a turkey and all the trimmings we eat, but we don't celebrate thanksgivings

undercover

If you do decide to use a hospital with religious connections, you might view it merely as paying for services rendered. You might view it as if the religious organization were operating a certain business, and in purchasing a service from such business you would not be making a direct, voluntary contribution to the support of a false religion. You would merely be paying for a product or a service.

Apply that to other "worldly" organizations. Take the Girl Scouts for instance. In the area that I grew up, it was wrong for JWs to buy Girl Scout cookies. But if I apply the same principle as above, then I can buy the cookies. I would merely be paying for a product. That would apply to almost anything. You could buy baked goods or stuff from a church rummage sale. You're paying for a product.

It kills me that the WTS can pick up on some minor Bible "principle" whether real or conceived and apply it to ever facet of your life. But the WTS principles vary, apply here but don't apply there and change constantly.

The hypocrisy shows in this article. In almost any aspect of life its; Can't do this. Don't do that. We got that all the time. But when something comes up that might get them in hot water legally, it becomes a conscience matter. Even now, the blood issue is a mess. They keep getting "new light" as to what blood by-products are okay to take or not take. All to lessen the severity of the repurcussions when someone dies from not taking blood. Even the punishment for taking blood has changed from DFing to DAing. The end result is the same to anyone who is receiving the punishment, but it's legal mumbo jumbo to protect the corporation.

166

Could This Be the Most Repellent Watchtower ....Ever?

by metatron in

jw
friends

you'll be getting the aug. 1 watchtower soon.

on it's rear cover, it has the following article:.

"the branch office of jehovah's witnesses in nigeria recently received a letter that, in part.

undercover

Just as Muslims give their life and possesions through the teachings of Mohammed, just as Christians give their bills $$$ out to support missionaries for Jesus, church activities for Jesus, payed pastors for Jesus, JW's give their ALL to the Organisation.......even money from chickens.

There's the crux of the matter right there. Religion, all religion, is a racket.

Old Joe was right about one thing, "religion is a snare and a racket". He knew it and he knew a way to condemn other religions for it while starting his own racket.

189

23 yr old female teacher arrested for sex with 14 yr. old boys

by wednesday in

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0628042teach1.html

that is a link to the smoking gun.

the entire story is there.i read the arrest report.

undercover

It was wrong, it's against the law and she should be punished. She is an adult. She should know better. She is a teacher and should have followed a code of ethics. She was also married. She broke the sanctitiy of that arrangement also.

In the case of the boy. He should have known it was wrong. Depends on his upbringing. He should have realized something was amiss either way. That being said, we have to remember that a teenage boy is anxious to, um, get laid. Whether it's a cute girl at school, or a hot teacher that comes on to you, that is a pressure that is almost impossible to resist.

I'm going to assume that this was a very physically mature 14 year old. As hot as she was, she could walk into any bar in town and pick up a fully grown man that could show her a better time than a 14 year old. Though he was physically mature, that doesn't mean he is mentally. Get them hormones kicked in and forget about logic and reason. It's time to get hot for teacher.

Being a good little dubbie at 14, I'm sure I would have run screaming from her advances(not that it's likely she would have come on to a nerdy, 'hovah freak). I'm sure a lot of well-trained kids would have said no and stayed away, but there's always some who don't have regards for rules, ethics or have morals taught to them. When presented with a chance to nail a hot woman, he jumped at it. In some ways I can't blame him. She can be and should be held accountable.

21

shakedowns

by bavman in

has anyone else noticed shakedowns in their area.

in my state whole service committee's (presiding overseer, service overseer, sectretary) have been replaced in many congregations including our's.

also, at the green bay convention and in many talks locally it seems there is a lot of hammering on the faithful and discreet slave.

undercover

I think you mean "shakeup". Those happen from time to time in lots of places. I've seen entire bodys of elders removed. I've seen Circuit Overseers removed.

Now if you want to talk shakedown, that's when the brothers use guilt to make you cough up more money or expect double donations on the same piece of literature placed at the door. Other shakedowns are building funds. Give to the WTS for building funds, then borrow the money back at interest to build a new KH and the WTS gets to owns the property, so the brothers end up paying a 30 year mortgage LEASE. Now that's a shakedown.