Posts by undercover

51

Are Circuit Overseers Stuck in Their Jobs?

by metatron in

jw
friends

during a recent c.o.

visit, the latest itinerant from the society seemed a bit subdued as he talked about the difficulties.

of his employment.

undercover

I knew a CO that gave up a lucrative career in some highly technological field. He was a smart cookie and extremely nice guy, but highly motivated. Before becoming a CO he had been pioneering when possible and serving where the need was great when he could. After his last kid was grown he decided to follow the WTS direction at giving full-time pioneering a try. His background lended itselt to the highly structured and organized lifestyle of the COs life and because he was used to speaking in front of large groups of people, it wasn't long before he was being groomed for COship. Eventually he sold his house and most possesions and made the jump to the traveling work.

I remember his visits because a lot of COs talked the talk but had never really walked the walk of giving up house and home and security to do the traveling work. Most of them grew up as JWs and went to Bethel or pioneered never really owning anything. Who were they to tell us how easy it was to give up everything to pioneer? But this guy was different. He actually gave up house, home and possesions. And he owned more than most of us ever figured we would own. So when he preached about giving up materialism he wasn't just preaching, he was talking from experience.

This guy could probably go back to the work force without much trouble, but I think most of the Bethel raised COs that would try to go into the workforce would have to rely on jobs that would be somewhat beneath someone who was used to organizing and leading hundreds of people in canvassing sales and construction work. I think that many would end up working for a JW owned business to make ends meet.

22

The Time Travel Tale of John Titor -- Brilliant Internet Hoax?

by Country Girl in

jw
friends

if any of you are bored and want to read a very fascinating tale of what i think is one of the more interesting internet hoaxes, there is the story of john titor.

the web site says:

"although there is debate over the exact date it started, on november 02, 2000, a person calling themselves timetravel_0, and later john titor, started posting on a public forum that he was a time traveler from the year 2036.

undercover

Another elaborate hoax is :
http://www.wingmakers.com/

Another one, though not as elaborate. Too many people have exposed them:

www.watchtower.org

24

ELDER MEETING NIGHTMARES!!!!!

by tresbella in

ahhh!

those dreaded elders meetings!

was it something as serious as someone heard from bro.

undercover

I'm being nitpicky here, but it's very important when discussing the UN scandal with JWs:

The WTS did not "join" the UN. Only national governments can join the UN. Non-governmental groups can be associated with the UN by becoming an NGO (non-governmental organization). It's a small thing, but if you go charging into an elders meeting and claiming that the WTS "joined" the UN, you're going to get shot down real quick.

Back to the subject at hand: I've been in a few nightmarish elder meetings. Despite the horribleness of some of the meetings, the ones that really stand out are the counseling by elders (whether one, two or JC) over some of the most trivial of matters. Length of hair. Mustache grooming. Ties too colorful. Flared dress pants(early 70s). Two door cars. Length of overcoat(seriously. We had one elder who insisted that all brothers had to wear a full length overcoat during the winter. Waist length was not appropriate. That one caused a mild mutiny). Music(Someone mentioned the Beatles. I used to get counseled on listening to them. Even after they broke up). Movies.

Looking back on it, it's hard to believe that I ever let them have that much control over me. Well, maybe I didn't them have that much control. I still owned a 2 door car, I listened to the Beatles, I still wore my wild ties and their intrusion on my life eventually pushed me out. Thanks elder guys!

34

who owns Kingdom Halls?

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

has there been any change in who owns the kingdom halls?.

last i knew it was the watchtower who owned them all, but the pubs had to pay the rent and mortgage.

are any or all of the halls in the names of local elders?

undercover

They did not help me a bit during my total loss flooding of my house during Floyd 5 years ago!

I hope this doesn't necessarily hi-jack the thread but the statement above reminded me of something. I read somewhere how the WTS came to the aid of natural disaster victims. Local brothers would donate materials and labor, the WTS would (if I remember correctly) use some Building Fund money to help but in the end a letter of a "suggested donation" would be presented to the JW homeowner. The letter would state something to the effect of how much time and material it cost to repair the home and it would be fitting to make a donation to the WTS in appreciation. Can anyone verify that this happened or clarify how it did happen?

40

do you believe only the jw's will be saved? from official wtbs website.

by candidlynuts in

do you believe that you are the only ones who will be saved?

many millions who have lived in centuries past and who were not jehovah's witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life.

many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before god's time of judgment, and they will gain salvation.

undercover

I was at a funeral for a non-JW husband. The sister next to me said, "Isn't it good that he died before Armageddon so he will be resurrected."
Blondie said, "Oh, then maybe we should be going from door to door killing people if we have that philosophy. I hope you haven't shared that with anyone else here."

22

Hello, I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses and I'm here to convert you....

by undercover in

the thread about the 6 million bible studies reminded me of some things that always bothered me about going door to door.

1. as mentioned in the other thread, there were times that cos and elders would tell us to not identify ourlselves as jws.

tell them we are "students of the bible" or "concerned neighbors", etc.

undercover

The thread about the 6 million bible studies reminded me of some things that always bothered me about going door to door.

1. As mentioned in the other thread, there were times that COs and elders would tell us to not identify ourlselves as JWs. Tell them we are "students of the bible" or "concerned neighbors", etc. I always bucked at that. If someone comes to my door selling something or asking for signatures or donations, I want to know who they are and who they represent. If they are not forthcoming with that information, then off my porch they go. I alwasy identified myself as a JW when someone came to the door. I'm on their property, invading their privacy. They have a right to know who and what I am. I got counseled more than once about it but I never changed.

2. Before the "donation arragnement" there were fixed prices on all literature. I remember when I was very young that mags were 5 cents a copy. I think they were .25 by the time of the change. Books went from .25 to a dollar over time. Not very expensive. But, we were selling them. "to cover the cost of printing" was the excuse. At that low, low price, if I was really sincere about helping people learn the "truth" I should have been willing to pay for it myself. Isn't that the whole point of the door to door ministry? To preach and teach? Not trade and sell. At first I praised the donation arrangement. I was so tired of selling books. Now I could give them away to people who really seemed interested. That exuberance quickly died as service meeting after service meeting spent as much time on how to ask for donations as it did on how to use the literature. I was beginning to see the WTS as a book publishing company instead of God's earthly organization.

3. This one bugs me the most. How many times did we respond to the classic householder line, "I have my own religion" with "we understand that most people have their own religion. We are not here to convert peope. We are just sharing a hope from the Bible...." or some such nonsense? We most certainly were there to convert people. I myself spouted that line countless times. And each time I said it, I knew I was lying. My father-in-law loves to tell field ministry experiences. Each time he says that he overcame some objection and each time he tells them that "we aren't trying to convert....". I couldn't help myself one day. I interupted him and said, "yes you are. That's exactly what your're trying to do. That's the whole reason you're there, is to try to get him to study, then come to the hall and then get baptized. To tell him anything is else is a deception".

Wouldn't it be refreshing to hear a JW tell the truth for once and say, "Hello, my name is (insert name here). I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses. We're calling today to see if you'd be interested in buying some of our literature and converting to our religion."

20

Official - There are 6 million Bible Studies - but where are they?

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

this was mentioned at the service meeting.. but, it should be worrying to the society, not as wonderful as it may sound.

the number getting baptized each year is shrinking rapidly.. at one time, they boasted of baptizing 1000 dubs a day which equals to 365,000 dubs.

this was back in 1997.. at the dc this year, it was 5,000 a week.

undercover

I remember our CO giving everyone shit for not offering a bible study at every single door while out in Service. He then said that if we stand there with the Knowledge Book, and read a couple of paragraphs, "you've just had a study with them and the person doesn't even realize it!" Isn't that lovely? We're now so desperate for studies that you have to con people. He then went on to say "....and then you TELL them (forget asking), that you'll be back next week to discuss another few paragraphs.........and there you go brothers, you've got yourself a regular bible study!

Wow, Mary. That sounds almost word for word what one of our COs said several years ago. I know the COs use scripts from the WTS but how you described it is exactly how I remembered our CO phrasing it.

At the time, I fell for the pitch. At first, I said to myself, "wow, that was easy. I'll have to try that." Then, later, as I reviewed it in my head, I got the feeling that somehow we were being sneaky. Why the deception? I mean, be up front and ask, "hey, ya wanna study?" If they say no, then why waste time with them?

30

Is Rug Doctor a Witness owned business?

by garybuss in

jw
friends

today i rented a rug doctor carpet shampooer.

when my son was living at home and was a recent high school graduate he pioneered and worked part time for rug doctor.

most everybody that worked for them here were witnesses.

undercover

Oh yeah, Mighty Auto Parts! I remember them too. In fact some good friends of mine worked for them. One elder I knew made some good money for several years doing that. Sometimes I wondered if it wasn't some kind of quasi-pyramid scheme. The guys driving the trucks and doing all the work didn't make much at all (not that it took a lot of skill to drive around and drop off boxes) but the franchise owners (who didn't seem to ever do a lot) always seemed to be in the money.

Edited to add: I remember when a NASCAR weekend series race team(local short tracks sanctioned by NASCAR) wanted Mighty to sponser a car or race or something and the franchise guys were going to until the elders stepped and stopped them.

36

Would You Buy A Lottery Ticket or Smoke In Front of a JW?

by minimus in

jw
friends

if you knew a witness was in a convenience store, would you brazenly buy cigarettes or lottery tickets in front of them??

?

undercover

I don't smoke and think it's a bad habit so I wouldn't buy cigs for myself. But I have bought them for others and I carry a lighter. It's a cool way to strike up conversations with women in bars/clubs (dont tell my wife, lol) I wouldn't have a problem buying them for others or lighting someone up with a JW present.

I don't normally buy lottery tickets but once in a great while if the jackpot is on up there I'll buy one and would have not issue with doing it in front of a JW.

30

Is Rug Doctor a Witness owned business?

by garybuss in

jw
friends

today i rented a rug doctor carpet shampooer.

when my son was living at home and was a recent high school graduate he pioneered and worked part time for rug doctor.

most everybody that worked for them here were witnesses.

undercover

I remember Trimline. I knew several guys that did that. I didn't know that it was a franchise thing and it was owned by JWs.

I remember something about a Rug Doctor franchise being owned by a JW locally. Everybody at the hall was trying to give him business. He was one of those guys where nothing ever panned out for him and everybody felt sorry for him. I remember my mom not trusting him and refusing to rent from him. Wish I knew the details on that.

What a trip down memory lane. I had completely forgotten about Trimline and all the JW guys that wanted to be in that business.