Posts by Vitameatavegamin

My experience with JWs has been very challenging to say the least. I was a JW for over 20 years of my life, and I have seen first hand how hurtful they really can be. It seems that family is no longer family, unless the Society says it's OK to have them around. Since when should the Society be allowed to even suggest to people that they should or should not be with family members?? How is it any of their business in the first place?? But yet, thousands follow their guidelines without question. I am inactive at the moment and probably will remain that way. My family has little to nothing to do with me, I am left out of parties and gatherings, treated as if I do not exist. There justification is that because I am not at meetings, I should not and do not need to be included.

I am in " good standing " with the congregation, but yet ostracized because I am not there. Even though I should not let what they think bother me, it still makes you feel like there is something wrong with you, even though you have done nothing to these people that you once considered friends. Why on earth would they not want me around? I have not changed the way I live or who I am. I never was obnoxious at parties, never an offensive person to be around. I helped plan many successful gatherings and a great time was had by all. Now, I am not even asked to ANYTHING, they just don't seem to want to be around me. It really hurts.

Another trend I have noticed, at least in my congregation, is that no one will stand up for you even if they know you are not being treated right. It seems that they are all so worried about their OWN standing they are afraid to rock the boat with others in the congregagtion, probably for fear they will be treated the same way. Totally spineless in my opinion. I had friends that would not even go to bat for me when I was left out of a bridal shower by the woman who decided to arrange it, she basically said that I was not welcome because I had not been to meetings in a while. But the bride to be had orginally invited me-but refused to stand up for me and say she wanted me there. I was absoulutely devastated. I realize these are just trivial incidents that I have since moved past, but the point is that where in the hell do these people get off being such jerks anyway??? I would have never have treated anyone that way, inactive or not. I

My message to JW lurkers out there: How dare you judge me just because I have not attended enough meetings to suit YOU?! Do honestly believe that just because I am not there that I must have turned into some immoral conscience lacking person that is not worth your time? I have news for you: I still live my life the way I always have. I have not changed. YOU are making the moves and making these choices. And they hurt. I wish just once some of those who have perpetrated this behavior could walk in my shoes and see how it feels.

This was not intended to whine about my troubles, but to make a point that JWs can be some of the most judgemental, selfish and piased people I have ever met.

Please, get a clue!!!!!

Thanks for reading, Vita

4

Reporting Molestations to Elders

by Vitameatavegamin in

my feeling on this whole sexual abuse matter is that if a child has been or is being molested, it should be taken straight to the police.

why allow the elders to "decide" first if there is any merit to the allegations.

mainly because if the accused has committed this crime and denies to the elders, the victim is basically screwed in the eyes of the congregation.

Vitameatavegamin

Hi all!

My feeling on this whole sexual abuse matter is that if a child has been or is being molested, it should be taken straight to the police. Why allow the Elders to "decide" first if there is any merit to the allegations. Mainly because if the accused has committed this crime and denies to the elders, the victim is basically screwed in the eyes of the congregation. Then, if the victim was to speak to close friends in the congregation about the matter, the victim can be accused of slander and thus have to face a judicial committe of their own. It just is not a proper way of handling such a serious accusation. JW elders are not EVEN equipped to handle such cases, much less render a judgement on the matter.

The Society needs to make a serious change in the way molestation cases are handled. Elders should be instructed to completely stay out of these matters and direct alleged victims and their families to the police. Then, if there is a guilty verdict by the courts, only then could Elders make an announcement accordingly.

Unless these changes are made, victims will stay victims in the JW organization, never being allowed a voice. Personally, I think the Dateline interview is just the tip of the iceberg. There will be more to come. This could be the beginning of the end for the JWs, who knows.

What do you think??

Thanks! Vita

82

Thank you for the support

by Erica in

jw
friends

i can't find the words that would express how grateful i am for all the support, not only for all of you to back me on the dateline show but for my trial as well.

i don't think i would have had the courage to go through the trauma if it wasn't for all your prayers and encouragement.

dateline was a huge help for many and i know this because i have recieved quite a few calls, one from a current jdub who wants out for the safety of his 16 month old baby, i was so excited that he lifted the veil and saw it for the pure truth that it was.

Vitameatavegamin

Erica,

I really enjoyed the Dateline interview, as I went through a situation myself years ago, being publicly reproved for being raped by a non-witness. I was not attacked but was only 15 and scared and consequently allowed this pervert to take advantage of me. Elders claimed I could have prevented it and ran, so therefore reasoning that I must have "wanted it". Was almost DF'd over it. It has been 17 years and I still cant believe it to this day. My point being I know exactly how it can be and how the elders sometimes reason. I have already had JW friends tell me that the Dateline interview was just JW bashing and that you were more than likely DF'd for something else, and just using the molestation as leverage to get back at them. So you see, they always have to keep victimizing the victim. I am appalled at the mentality of JWs on this matter. They are so clueless and have no idea how it feels.

I tip my glass to you Erica for having the courage to stand up. I know all too many who never would. I wish you well for your future. Maybe you should become a regular poster here and offer your support to others in similar situations. Would love to hear from you!

Thanks! Vita

165

DATELINE: BLACK ART OF PROPAGANDA

by You Know in

hardly anyone has an honest opinion about anything of importance that wasnt craftily pre-packaged and handed to them by someone else whose job it is to craft public opinion.

the intention of the media is to present the illusion of impartially informing, all the while pandering to prejudice and ignorance in order to persuade to a particular point of view.

datelines presentation of the watchtowers child abuse issue was a case study in the black art of media propaganda.. from the very beginning of the presentation dateline was intent on giving the public a negative impression of jehovahs witnesses by portraying us all as oddball crackpots whose religion revolves around the doctrine that we dont celebrate birthdays and that all non-believers are possessed by the devil and that we want them all to die.

Vitameatavegamin

YouKnow,

I have to disagree with your position on this matter. I think the Dateline interview was projected in a balanced matter. But speaking from a similar experience in 1985, I have seen first hand how Elders behave at times. It is so typical of JWs to defend the Societys position no matter what, and further victimize the victim. I know, I have had it happen. They are so intent on keeping the congregation clean at all costs, they would rather squelch ANY bad publicity rather that deal with the problem at hand.

Let's face it; there are pedophiles in every walk of life, more than we will probably ever realize, yes, even among JW's.

Why do I have the opinion that I do? I was publicly reproved 17 years ago for being raped(statuatory)by a non-witness man. The Elders claimed that because I could have ran away and did not, I was a willing participant. I went along with it mainly out of fear, I was scared to death. I was only 15. Elders told me that I was lucky that I was not being disfellowshipped for what happenend because it made the congregation, guess what? LOOK BAD!! I recieve NO help, NO counseling, NO NOTHING! I never recieved one comforting word from those Elders. I clearly needed help and was denied everything. My parents informed me that the ONLY help I needed would come from the Congregation. Oh yea, I got help alright. No one would associate with me, I lost my friends and was labeled a bad associate. I was bascially shunned, all because they were going to make sure I took the fall for what happened. It took me YEARS to get over the incident, and I still carry some bitterness to this day.

My point is, YouKnow, that these incidents can and DO happen. Until you have experienced this side of life, you have NO idea how it is. And just for the record, I am not "Witness bashing",as some have accused the Dateline interview of doing. I dont think that these incidents represent everyone in the org, of course. But, I think it is a good indicator that the Jehovahs Witnesses Organization may be in serious need of a second look and maybe even a major overhaul in how much authority Elders should be allowed to have regarding certain matters.

If an Elder recieves a complaint that one had been or is being molested, my advice is just to send the alleged victims to the police and let a court of law decide the guilt or innocence of the accused. Child molestation cases are of such a serious nature that you would need professionals who are equipped to handle these kind of situations to investigate the matter. JW elders should not even handle these cases. It it time for a long overdue change.

Just my thoughts.

Thanks- Vita

P.S.-My molester was put in jail, and guess what-turns out he had done this to at least 25 girls over a 15 year period.

57

Ignorance of Silent Lambies

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

what a bunch of wall paper.

99% of the people on this forum are hopelessly believers in one sided non-sense.

i am tired of the abusive language that has been dumped on me by otherwise respectable participants.

Vitameatavegamin

Proplog-

Although I am not a child molestation victim, these incidents can and do happen within the org. What really fries me personally with JWs is that they never want to acknowledge that something unjust or unfair happened within the cong. 9 times out of 10 the first thing that comes out of their mouth is "well, God's org. is not perfect". Like that excuses everything. JWs who have never experienced the "bad" side of the org. always have a generalized reason why we should not be angry with people's "imperfections".

Granted, we do not want to be habitual complainers over trivial matters, but I personally have been the victim of incompetent Elders. When I protested what was happening I was bascially told that if they were wrong Jehovah would take care of it. I can see where victims can be contiually victimized by the JW judicial system. Joelbear summed that point up well.

In my personal observation as a JW for 20 years, the Society takes little to no responsibility when it comes to the errors of themselves or those they have put in a position of responsibility within congregations. It is ALWAYS our fault as lowly publishers because WE don't have the "right" attitude or WE don't have enough faith in Jehovah. If you listen to the talks given on these issues, what is the general theme? It is always about what WE need to be doing as, the general publisher in the cong. We should not stay angry with those who have offended us. Basically, we are advised to become rugs.

Some of this is good advice, yes. But if you notice, it is NEVER the Society's fault. That is my point. I have taken responsibility for my mistakes over the years. This is the right thing to do. But when I had a complaint about certain Elders who were basically a joke, and I am talking blatantly a joke, I was told that because I was a woman, to stay in my place for one, and that even if they were wrong, God would take care of it in the end.

Again, no responsibility.

The result? Continually victimized by the JW system. And, we had better not complain either. I am not saying that it is all bad, but personally, I think a major overhaul is needed in the way situations are handled. There are good Elders out there, but many are on power trips. Maybe it will change someday, who knows!

Just my thoughts! Thanks.

Vita

33

What happened to the fish in the great flood?

by Beans in

now if the world was covered in water was it salt water or fresh water and how did all the fish survive who were not adapted to the other type of water?

Vitameatavegamin

Beans make you fart.

95

Okay Fess Up: What's Your Handle Mean?

by Mindchild in

jw
friends

okay fess up: whats your handle mean?.

my handle: mindchild comes from computer scientist and futurist dr. hans moravec: who wrote the book, the future of robot and human intelligence which is a book about when we will be able to construct machines capable of human intelligence and raises the possibility of uploading ourselves (every thought we ever had) into an android body much superior to the human ones we have now.

i entertain the hope that not only will i live long enough to see this happen, i will transfer myself (the complete essence of what is me) into a body of my own choosing and become immortal if i so choose.

Vitameatavegamin

I am a major Lucille Ball fan. I Love Lucy is the best show ever.

"So , why don't you join the thousands of happy, peppy people and get yourself a great big bottle of Vitameatavegamin. That's Vita-meata-vegamin."

207

IS THE WATCHTOWER A FALSE PROPHET?

by You Know in

when jesus was on earth the devil approached him quoting scripture in order to tempt and entrap him.

it is no wonder then that the apostate angel would be behind the effort to use the scriptures against jehovahs people today in order to mislead them.

one of the most cunning and effective uses of scripture against us by satans agents is the charge that we are false prophets.

Vitameatavegamin

YouKnow,

Yes, the Society does base it's teachings on the Bible, that is not the argument here. But, maybe it is THEIR interpretation of the scriptures, not necessarily the absolute meaning. I have always wondered how the society arrives at the conclusion that they and they alone are the only group in the entire world that is able to accurately interpret Bible. How do they really know for sure? Every organized religion in the world feels that they are THE true one. And they can all use scripture to back up their position.

I am struggling with this issue as an inactive JW. I have seen and am currently experiencing much injustice all in the name of God and the Society. The Bible clearly states not to add to the things written. But, in my opinion, the Society puts their own spin on scriptures. They can justify anything they want to by quoting a scripture whether or not it directly means what they want it to. Personally, my belief is that God put in the Bible what he wanted us to understand clearly, such as commandments, etc. But there is so much to the Bible that is speculation, I think that as mere humans, we are just not qualified to understand everything 100% in the Bible. So much symbolism. Yes, I do respect the Bible very much and follow what I do understand. But maybe God will allow us to know more in His due time. Maybe we all should stop judging one another on issues maybe we don't completely understand yet.

Just my thoughts.

Thank you.