Posts by VM44

40

Guards at Stadium Conventions during Song and Prayer

by VM44 in

jw
friends

when did the wt start having guards come out during the song and prayer at stadium conventions?

i noticed this at a convention in san diego, right before the song begins, a bunch of "brothers" come out and stand at key positions facing the seats, and scan the audience!

they remain until after the prayer, and they do not bow their heads during the prayer, but keep scanning the audience.

VM44

Hi Blondie,

Also, this occurred to me, are you sure they are security and not just attendants looking for empty seats. Some facilities are extremely crowded and they may be people looking for seats.

oh, no, they are NOT looking for seats. I should describe what I saw in more detail.

The Qualcomm Stadium (used to be Jack Murphy Stadium) in San Diego is a open baseball stadium with several levels. Right before the song and prayer at the conventions, scores of these "watchers" would take their positions .On the level I was at, they took up position before the first row of seats, each watcher spaced himself from another by about 20 feet or so. (to cover the whole facility, there has to be quite a few of them!). They would face towards the seats, and scan throughout the song and prayer. After the prayer, they would go away. This was done when the convention started in the morning, and repeated at lunch time, and at the when the convention ended at the end of the day.

There must have been something really big that happened once, perhaps some group of people put up a banner in the stands during the prayer? That would be something to note!

But Blondie is right about any demonstrations within the convention, most JWs would just put it down to "persecution." Just more proof that they are right.

--VM44

40

Guards at Stadium Conventions during Song and Prayer

by VM44 in

jw
friends

when did the wt start having guards come out during the song and prayer at stadium conventions?

i noticed this at a convention in san diego, right before the song begins, a bunch of "brothers" come out and stand at key positions facing the seats, and scan the audience!

they remain until after the prayer, and they do not bow their heads during the prayer, but keep scanning the audience.

VM44

There have always been two brothers sitting/standing on either side of the stairs up to the platform at the DCs

Yes, but the "guards" I saw in San Diego form a row in front of the seats, and they are at all the various levels in the stadium. It is obvious they are looking for disruptions in the stands.

I just wanted to know what happened for the WTS to start putting these "guards" at conventions? (from Blondie's comment, it appears that not all conventions have them)

--VM44

39

Where is the MONEY REALLY GOING? -- Special Assembly Days, etc

by EyeDrEvil in

i have always wondered why it cost so much to "rent" the space used for local special assembly days and circuit assemblies.... in our case, the society built a large assembly hall, on donated farm land (= free), in the middle of some corn fields 20 miles outside of columbus, ohio... the property has a couple of apartments where some of the travelling overseers live, who help with the upkeep of the building.

cleaning the building was taken care of because of our "privilege" to go out the day before the assembly to get it in good shape (free housekeeping and maintenance work).. so, the society owns the building.

it was built on free land.

VM44

And after they determine what the contribution will be, and send it in, and tack it on as an Assembly Hall "expense", they STILL say that they do not "pass a collection plate"???

And they don't see anything hypocritical about that?

What nerve they have!

--VM44 (whose nerve this info has touched!)

39

Where is the MONEY REALLY GOING? -- Special Assembly Days, etc

by EyeDrEvil in

i have always wondered why it cost so much to "rent" the space used for local special assembly days and circuit assemblies.... in our case, the society built a large assembly hall, on donated farm land (= free), in the middle of some corn fields 20 miles outside of columbus, ohio... the property has a couple of apartments where some of the travelling overseers live, who help with the upkeep of the building.

cleaning the building was taken care of because of our "privilege" to go out the day before the assembly to get it in good shape (free housekeeping and maintenance work).. so, the society owns the building.

it was built on free land.

VM44

He said they are told by the CO not to go back and tell people in the congregation about the "formula" and how the money to the WTS is preset before Sunday ever dawns

So they indeed do not think the people have a right to know!

What disrespect the WTS shows!

--VM44

39

Where is the MONEY REALLY GOING? -- Special Assembly Days, etc

by EyeDrEvil in

i have always wondered why it cost so much to "rent" the space used for local special assembly days and circuit assemblies.... in our case, the society built a large assembly hall, on donated farm land (= free), in the middle of some corn fields 20 miles outside of columbus, ohio... the property has a couple of apartments where some of the travelling overseers live, who help with the upkeep of the building.

cleaning the building was taken care of because of our "privilege" to go out the day before the assembly to get it in good shape (free housekeeping and maintenance work).. so, the society owns the building.

it was built on free land.

VM44

Hi Blondie

Answered elsewhere, but will repeat.

I can't find the thread where that info was posted before, could you help me find it?

I find this fascinating, that the contribution to the WTS is determinded, and SENT, before the assembly, essentially making it an expense that has to be made up. Quite different from the thinking, which I had once, that the expenses were actual expenses to run the hall, and then anything left would be sent as a contribution.

It is obvious that they WANT people to think as I thought, hence, no breakdown of the costs, like at the Kingdom Halls. Could you imagine the response if they did list the assembly hall "expenses"?

Sending such a contribution in BEFORE the assembly is very presumptuos of the WatchTower Society. It just shows that they are very much a MONEY MAKING business organisation!

And it is just plain rude as well, not informing the people this is how Assembly Hall "Contributions" to the WTS are made.

What would happen if only a handful of people showed up for the assembly? Would they still say they were $5000 short? They would have to!

When it comes to money, it is plain and clear that the Watchtower Society is not up front with it's members, and that they do try to squeeze extra "contributions" from them. (remember the Tacoma Dome Parking Scam?)

--VM44

40

Guards at Stadium Conventions during Song and Prayer

by VM44 in

jw
friends

when did the wt start having guards come out during the song and prayer at stadium conventions?

i noticed this at a convention in san diego, right before the song begins, a bunch of "brothers" come out and stand at key positions facing the seats, and scan the audience!

they remain until after the prayer, and they do not bow their heads during the prayer, but keep scanning the audience.

VM44

When did the WT start having guards come out during the song and prayer at stadium conventions?

I noticed this at a convention in San Diego, right before the song begins, a bunch of "brothers" come out and stand at key positions facing the seats, and scan the audience! They remain until after the prayer, and they do not bow their heads during the prayer, but keep scanning the audience.

What is the reason for this? Did someone do something really outstanding once to bring this about? They (the WT) did not do this in the past (20 years or so ago).

It is sort of creepy!

--VM44

8

Looking for book

by nowuask in

jw
friends

does anybody know were i can download the book crisis of conscience?

thx...

VM44

There might be, somewhere on the net, PDF chapter files from an earlier edition of Crisis of Conscience.

But downloading the book for free does not help Ray Franz, the author.

The book is not that expensive ($18.95 for hardback, $14.95 for softcover), so I recommend going to Commentary Press to order it.

Also, ordering the book insures you get the latest edition (Fourth edition, Revised and Updated - May, 2002)

http://www.commentarypress.com/booklist-eng.html

Just found out that Commentary Press takes Paypal! Makes it even easier to place an order.

--VM44

28

What happens when Bethelites are too old, infirm, or disturbed to work?

by True North in

jw
friends

in barbara grizzuti harrison's book visions of glory: a history and a memory of jehovah?s witnesses (which is online at http://www.exjws.net/vg.htm -- i highly recommend it) there's an account of heartlessness at bethel that i found particularly troubling.

it's in "chapter iv.

accumulating wealth while the world refuses to die" (http://www.exjws.net/vg4.htm) and is as follows:.

VM44

what is WT policy towards Bethelites who become too old, infirm, or disturbed to work?

Ever see the movie Soylent Green?

--VM44

23

Governing Blunders Part II - Women and Cranial Capacity.

by hillary_step in

jw
friends

part i of governing blunders in which the wts used a quotation from an anonymous psychiatrist and the department on 'many authorities' attempting to prove that woman feel, while men think, and that the tow actions are mutually exclusive, reached this conclusion in part - "thus the supervision of women by men seems to be nature?s plan, however desperately women may fight it.

as we all know, it takes as little as this type of statement for groups of men with shiny pants and briefcases to begin herding their women like cattle, trying to convince them that cooking endless 'nutritious' meals really is fun, and that holding a microphone just so, is a real mans work.

i thought we would continue in like vein, reminding the reader once again that many of the writers and editors of the wt and awake are still writing atricles for these magazines as we speak.

VM44

Thus a leading authority on the human body...

No names or other references again! This is REALLY annoying!

Anonymous quotation turns any reference, no matter how authoritative the source might be, into a mere anecdote.

This fits into the purpose of the Watchtower, they do not want the reader to check the sources for accuracy.

The purpose of the Watchtower and Awake articles is to promote Watchtower propaganda, to impart the message the Watchtower wants to impart to the reader. So they only provide the quotes, or partial quotes, that they want to provide, and nothing more.

The "reasoning" that the amount of brain matter directly corresponds to reasoning ability not only speculative, but is just plain wrong! Many factors are involved in intelligence.

I wonder if the Awake! writer really believed what he wrote, or if instead, he was directed to write the article and had not choice.

--VM44

85

Governing Blunders - Part 1

by hillary_step in

jw
friends

i thought i would start a weekly column of wts inanity, inanity serious enough to have affected peoples perceptions and negatively changed their lives.. .

one famous wts myth that i have heard uttered more times a minimus question is that ?women feel while men think?, did you ever wonder where the wts dug that thought up from?

apparently from an unamed woman psychologist and the famous department of ?many authorities?

VM44

Basically, women like to work under a ceiling of authority, provided that
it is exercised properly. This is the way Jehovah God created them.

The Watchtower must like the above words, as they have used in them the references for three of their Public Talk outlines.

Specifically:

Public Talk 037, "Decide Now for Divine Rulership."

Public Talk 048, "Meeting the Test of Christian Loyalty,"

Public Talk 075, "Do You Recognize Jehovah's Sovereignty?"

It would be interesting to know who the psychologist was that made the orignal statement "Basically, women like to work under a ceiling of authority." Is it indeed a scientific statement, or just her personal opinion?

--VM44