Very interesting, thanks for the work! My impressions are that the JW religion appeals to the powerless and the oppressed, hence many blacks and women.
voltaire
JoinedPosts by voltaire
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American Religious Identification Study
by mikepence insee http://www.gc.cuny.edu/studies/key_findings.htm.
some highlights.... jw's famous for their apostates ;-) almost 1/3rd leave!...
"some groups such as mormons and jehovah's witnesses appear to attract a large number of converts ("in-switchers"), but also nearly as large a number of apostates ("out-switchers").
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I had my talk with an elder last Saturday
by voltaire inhow can i sum up how it went?
in a word...
aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
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voltaire
Why don't I just walk away? If I weren't married to a very stubbornly committed JW, I would move away. I've talked to my wife repeatedly about whether it's ethical to shun, etc. She's determined not to budge an inch. She's just like Marilyn said about the elder. She's a nice person, really a great person...unless you threaten her belief system, in which case she can turn ice-cold in a heartbeat. To be frank, although I don't like to admit it, I'm so fed up with my marriage, that when I'm disfellowshipped that will be jsutification for divorce. At that point she'll have to make a choice, me or the "truth". Of course, it's a no-brainer for her.
I hope it doesn't sound cold and calculating on my part, but at this point we have two separate social lives. It will only get worse after I'm disfellowshipped. If she puts her organization above her marriage, I understand her to be forfeiting the marriage. She says that DF doesn't end the marriagge bonds. I say hogwash. I don't take divorce lightly. On the other hand I've lived a lie for too long.It's led to depression and tremendous anguish. So I'm going to be honest with the elders. They can do what they want. But if the elders think they can inject themselves into my personal life, they're wrong. If my wife thinks she can support such unethical treatment towards her husband and still have a husband, she's wrong, too. So, I'm allowing the issue to come to a head. I want it to be over. This seems like the best way for me.
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I had my talk with an elder last Saturday
by voltaire inhow can i sum up how it went?
in a word...
aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
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voltaire
Running Man,
Believe me, I understand why you might be lying low. Don't feel that it's inappropriate to protect yourself anyway you can. What I'm doing just happens to be right for me now.
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I had my talk with an elder last Saturday
by voltaire inhow can i sum up how it went?
in a word...
aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
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voltaire
How can I sum up how it went? In a word... aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There, I feel better! We went to a Chinese buffet. We talked for about 3 hours. At first we talked about science and evolution. He's a very likeable guy, but not a bit equipped to reason on anything scientific. We talked about dates and prophetic speculaion.Same old story, "nobody's perfect yada yada yada". Quite towad the end I blurted out, without even realizing what I was saying, "but that's what YOU GUYS say!" He realized that I don't really consider myself a JW. He was quite shocked. We went around and around some more, this time about how I didn't think it was really ehtical to shun someone for holding different opinions. His reasoning was, if you don't contribute then get out. He said it's like a family, If you don't want to work, the father kicks you out. I told him that unbelieving mates come all the time, but don't " contribute", yet they're treated humanely. Then he said I had made a commitment to God. mentioned how I was 17 when I made that commitment and had been indoctrinated since about 6. He said it was very serious and encouraged me to tell the P.O. He said he wanted to give me that chance. I asked him to do it. Our meeting is tonight, so I hope that gets done soon. (I don't go to the midweek meetings due to work, for that matter I don't go to the Sunday meeting because I don't want to)He also encouraged me to write a letter telling the congregation that I don't want to be a witness. I want them to be men enough to DF me. I haven't done anything wrong. If they don't like my attitude or conduct, they'll have to do something about it. In the end I'm betting they announce it as a DA. Who knows...or cares.
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Raymond Franz /key and gate
by Masterji inhow many of you agree with amazing that ray franz "handed you the key" and that "his writings became the gate to ...liberty?".
m
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voltaire
I would say he has made me feel more comfortable walking out the door. I don't think anyone else "holds the key". But we do need a little encouragement sometimes to take such a large step as that.
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Anyone live in Chicago?
by voltaire insince i'll probably dfed soon, i'm wondering if any of you are near me.
up for a cup of coffee?
i live on the nw side of chicago but work near the lake north of downtown.
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voltaire
Hey Tina,
Do E-mail me! That'd be great.
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Anyone live in Chicago?
by voltaire insince i'll probably dfed soon, i'm wondering if any of you are near me.
up for a cup of coffee?
i live on the nw side of chicago but work near the lake north of downtown.
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voltaire
Since I'll probably DFed soon, I'm wondering if any of you are near me. Up for a cup of coffee? I live on the NW side of Chicago but work near the lake north of downtown. You can e-mail me at alterother.yahoo.com.
Ron
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Will you go to the memorial
by freeborg ini have never missed a memorial in 20 years of being a jw, but this year will be the first one i miss because i refuse to set foot in any kingdom hall.
i was wondering how many that post here will attend the memorial and if so why?.
do you feel pressured into going by family or friends?.
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voltaire
Nope, cuz hain't non uf't true nohow. (I've been reading Huckleberry Finn, so excuse my English)
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THE BORG IS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION
by picosito init's the borg's fault that there's no more joy associated with being a jw.
i'm posting this previous reply of mine to tr's "my visit to the hall last night" because i got so overwhelmed by these things i remembered i had to do it as a new post.. the borg not only has proscribed all the holidays and birthdays, but also clamps down on jws' choices in entertainment and association, and it looks like they've pretty well eliminated fun from worship.
and they have the nerve to remind people of how jehovah is a happy god!!!
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voltaire
Great post! I remember some of that too! Variety is truly the spice of life and the WT has ruthlessly cut out all variety and oportunity for personal initiative.
You are SOOOOO right about the talks. It's really absurd to have it set up the way it it now. Why not just go back to the Rutherford-era phonograph-style talks? They could just send out a recording of the talks to each congregation. If they wanted, someone could stand there and lip sync. It wouldn't be much worse and it'd save the brothers a lot of travelling time and gas expense!
On a more serious note, the WT faces a grave problem. If you allow variety and individuality, some people will take it and run. You lose a measure of control over the final product. With all of the dissent that surfaced after the '75 business, they had to clamp down. Too much freedom of thought and action would have probably spiraled out of control, given the disenchantment with the prophetic failures. This is the result. It's bought the WT some time, but I fear the insipid product that's being put out doesn't attract people like a fresh, interesting and original one. It's a tough line to straddle, control of the R&F versus an appealing form of worship.
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I JUST GOT CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE!!
by terafera ini just got back from barnes and nobles... i finally got it!!
woohoo!!.
i may not see you guys for a while... i cant wait to read it.. .
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voltaire
I was so paranoid that I drove about 30 minutes to a suburban library every few days for about 2 weeks. I told my wife it was a real beautiful library(which was the truth). Have fun. Be prepared to be blown away!