voltaire

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Posts by voltaire

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  17

  Elders

  by sammielee24 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just curious - it seems like there are quite a few ex-elders around the site....how many are you?

  i enjoy reading stories from the inside...

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  voltaire

  I was an elder for several years. I think that the controversies and clashes on the body had a lot to do with my losing faith in the society.
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  18

  The New OM Book? Don't Waste Your Time.

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i zipped thru the new organization book and can tell you that it's a waste of trees.. i think that the updated section on df'ing is mostly just a legalistic response to distance.

  themselves from any potential defamation charges, by default.. it downplays the blood issue and 'worldly' holidays but almost none of that matters.. why?

  because in the end, the sservice dept calls the shots.

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  voltaire

  I, too, read the new OM book at my mom's this past weekend. I noticed that they changed the way DFs are announced. If I remember correctly, they now simply announced that "So-and-so is no longer one of Jehovah's witnesses". It's the same for DA. It actually makes sense from a legal point of view. It shifts the responsibility from the commitee to the individual DFed or DAed. I noticed that it covered the alternative forms of witnessing. By and large, it was the same old stuff as always. I'm amazed that anyone would think that the end is nearer because the organization updated a few procedural issues. But, hey, I was the same way about 10 years ago.

  As I read the latest WTs, I was struck by how little the magazines have changed in the way of content. It almost seems as though someone has pulled up old articles on the word processor, worked in a few new pictures and replaced older references and quotes with newer ones. I wasn't in long enough to have realized how little intellectual ferment was really going on. At the time it seemed like the literature was so profound. You have to be around the witnesses for a little while before you begin to notice how much is recycled material and devoid of any original thought
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  7

  The Emphatic What ?

  by jules99 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  can anyone enlighten me as to the origins of the emphatic diaglott ?

  is it anything to do with the vatican?.

  jules.

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  voltaire

  The word "diaglott" seems to be Greek and means "two tongues" (Dia=two and Glott=tonge) So it's a bilingual edition (Bilingual is Latin and means the same thing Bi=Two and lingual=Tongue) Who translatedit, I'm not sure. Wasn't it a Benjamin wilson? If I'm remembering correctly he translated "parousia" as "presence", rather than "coming", which supported Russel's theology. I imagine that's why the WT bought the rights to it and went to the trouble of printing it. (I haven't attended meetings for 3 years, so I may be remembering wrong, anyone else should feel free to correct me or expand on what I've said). It's not a bad way to study biblical Greek, BTW. Kinda fun to read it and refer to the English as you go along, you can make out quite a lot of vocabulary and some grammar, too.
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  24

  Who is Maximus?

  by cyberguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  who is maximus?

  when i first came to this board, maxiums made some kindly responses to my posts.

  anyway, is maxiums an x-co/do?

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  voltaire

  Farkel,

  I, too, would like to be put on a list of those who feel gratitude to Maximus. I was coming out of the WT right around the time he was most active, just a little before he stopped posting. I'm sorry he's not well. His privacy should by all means be respected. He helped me A LOT. If you ever have the opportunity to pass on my thanks, please do. Should he ever feel well enough to talk about his experience here again, you should post a message and give us the opportunity to thank him. I think he's great. He's exactly the kind of knowledable insider who can demystify the whole JW experience. He made my transition considerably smoother than it would have been. (And while I'm doling out the praise, a hearty thank you to you Farkel, you may not be a Maximus, but you've been a BIG help as well)

  Voltaire
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  10

  Anyone know exBethelites Who Went Off the Deep End?

  by willyloman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this was inspired by seven006's fascinating series on his consulting trip to bethel.

  wonder if anyone else has a story like this to tell?

  my first memory of questioning whether the revered bethel experience might be somewhat less than what was advertised was:.

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  voltaire

  I temped for two weeks way back in '92. As a temp, you don't get to know anyone too well, at least not the crazy side. But I did accumalate a lot of interesting impressions.

  Anyone ever see the glass recycling bins? ROW UPON ROW of barrels full of beer bottles and beer cans and some harder stuff, too. I know there's a lot of people at Bethel, but to generate so many bottles and cans there's got to be some serious drinking going on there.

  I stayed in the hotel that was renovated, can't remember the name now, Standish???Anyway, the lobby was beautiful, a HUGE chandelier, a magnificient staircase and an interesting mural. VERY IMPRESSIVE. But once you got past the area that was public, the place was practically a dive. Clean, yes. But very barebones.

  One day, as I was leaving my room, I heard Eric Clapton's "Cocaine" coming from one of the rooms. That was surreal, to be walking through the halls of Bethel and hear that.

  Oh yeah, I watched the Cowboys kick Buffalo's but yet again for the Superbowl. that was fun, because there were six of us temps in the room. It was a veritable superbowl party. Plenty to drink, too!!!

  I visited the Italian congregation. We were invited to the house of a sister. I went out in service. It was WAY cool! No one answered the door in service(just as well), but it was fun to hang out with Italians and brush up on my Italian. Of course, we had a little to drink at the sister's house. She apologized for only having Budweiser, no Italian wine. I was happy, though.

  Did I mention there was a fair amount of drinking at Bethel?

  The life is very regimented, that's for sure. It struck me that regular pionerring is a strange precursor to Bethel life. When they talk about "grooming" someone for Bethel, they usually seem to mean pioneering, reading at the bookstudy etc. Then you end up doing laundry for eight hours a day. Actually as I think about, I do see the connection. TRAIN PEOPLE TO DO MINDLESS WORK, TO FOLLOW ORDERS UNQUESTIONING, NO MATTER HOW FOOLISH THEY MAY SEEM AND YOU'LL FIT IN AT BETHEL.

  All in all, my experience was an interesting one. I would say that I actually liked it. I spoke lots of Spanish, a little French with a brother from Haiti. I met interesting people.But I, too, was left with a ..well....queer feeling is all I can say. It seemed all so mechanical, regimented, suffocating. As someone in one of the posts remarked, I found myself thinking that if the new world is going to be like this...? I was a long way off from leaving. But I think it was definitely one of those things that plants a few negative seeds, waiting to germinate later.
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  27

  Do you have a 'turning point' memory that started you to question?

  by Steve Lowry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  mine was when i was about ten years old or so back in the mid sixties.

  we had a guy in our k.hall who actually lived through the 1914 experience (earl senior).

  he was well into his seventies i guess even then and was one of the annointed.

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  voltaire

  I always loved to read about science, I used to read a lot of cosmology, Stephen Hawking etc. I reached a point where I knew something was wrong, but couldn't identify it. The first concrete point that disturbed me was the Creation book's assertion that the disagreements among evolutionists proved the theory was unfounded. It made it sound as tho' evolutionists don't really believe in the theory that they all espouse. I remember asking myself, how could Dawkins say that his book was "science fiction" as quoted early on in the Creation book. Why did he teach it, then? That led me to seek out the original works. It turns out that the society's use of quotes was shockingly misleading. That was enough to edge me toward more questioning, which led, in turn, to more reading.

  (As it turns out, Dawkins qualified his remark by saying that, cliche or not, "truth is often stranger than fiction". So, yes, the ideas in his book are hard to accept. They may sound bizarre, but don't let that keep you from taking the time to evaluate them.)
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  45

  United States and Canada.

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  most europeans have more than a little difficulty in telling a us accent apart from that of a canadian one.

  it's a bit like ozzies and kiwi's, until you've met a few, the differences aren't that apparent to the untrained ear.

  some folk even think that the us and canada are simply interchangeable terms for what is basically the same place.

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  voltaire

  As a proud American I would just like to say that I thought the US was completly surrounded by ocean. What is this `border`thing you speak of?
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  36

  Not all JWs are paedophiles!

  by Brummie in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i read some reports (infact the majority) and they seem to imply all jws are paedophiles!

  seldom do they draw the distinction between the majority (who are not peds) and the few who are.

  perhaps we need to be more balanced when we comment on these things...dont cha think?.

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  voltaire

  No, but ALL JWs, each and every one, belongs to an organization that shields paedophiles from legal action to the extent possible.
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  15

  Are the JW rules different worldwide ??? and WHY ???

  by run dont walk in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have read alot of threads recently and it seems to me that each country of jw's has a set of different rules.

  maybe most of the doctrines are the same, but there seems to be a big difference in ............... beards ........ clothing ........ tatoos ......... piercing body ......... grooming in general ......... cars ........... jobs you do ........ schooling .............. university ........... dating .......... what do you think ????????.

  i read one comment (can't remeber who it was) who said that the usa jw's seem to be alot more concerned about stupid little things then most other countries.. hopefully we will get comments from all over the world on this topic, and compare some differences.. also brings up the question why ???????.

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  voltaire

  I agree with Aunthill. It´s largely a matter of control. They want to be different, not because what they shun is necessarily bad, but for the sake of being different. If everyone in the world decided short hair and no beards was cool, all JWs would have long hair and beards by the next convention. Controlling the smaller details of one´s life goes along with the larger scheme of controlling a JW´s mind.

  Ron
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  79

  What's the worst sin that you knew a JW commited? Espec. Elders, Bethelites

  by FreeofGuilt in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the po of my congregation was screwing another elders wife- i have more, but i wanna hear yours!

  kristine

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  voltaire

  Buster had sex with the CO´s wife....AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  There was a brother in our hall who had an affair with his mother-in-law. He was later(years later) appointed an elder which eventually led to the whole thing becoming known to the elders. The older elders knew about it but didn´t say anything, the younger onés didn´t have a clue, which helped him get appointed. His wife never really got over it. Suffered emotionally for years, but her father forgave her mother. Plus she had kids. After her father died, she lost it(DESERVEDLY, IN MY OPINION). She finally divorced and remarried.I hope she´s finally at peace and happy.